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Post by nyc718 on Nov 13, 2019 21:40:51 GMT
I agree, hence my frustration with how to do you talk to an FA when they don't know? I've gotten replies of just have an honest conversation about your needs. Well, I CAN'T just have an honest conversation with anyone with some kind of unaware avoidant attachment! You can, because you're just sharing your own needs about relationship compatibility. He'll listen. But you can't control how he will receive it or respond. My FA ex, who I've had extensive conversations with over the years while we were still seeing each other, never broke up or ran away because I'd expressed my needs. Even if he didn't want to have the conversation, as long as I wasn't triggered AP and was calm about it. He broke up with me when I told him I loved him, after it was an unsaid elephant for a year, and he decided that because he'd sexually withdrawn it must mean he didn't love me. Then he broke up with me again for the same reason a couple years later. Is he otherwise always around, never letting me go, acting like he loves me? Oh yes, even still years later. But I never totally scared him off by expressing my own needs. It was still all him fighting with himself. Lol, there will be NO declarations of love on my end, I know that :-) Thanks for sharing your experience. I know that I will feel better expressing my needs, I always have in the past. It really is a weight off the shoulders to be honest about what you need. I am formulating how the conversation might go. |
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Post by nyc718 on Nov 13, 2019 21:44:46 GMT
Dysfunctional behaviour like this isn’t without risk. I deactivated and was so adamant that I couldn’t give her what she needed, that’s exactly what the lady did. She met someone. What could I do? I think that a wake up call is reasonable, and I think it’s reasonable to mention it upon reconnection. I think your needs regarding consistency are reasonable. It’s FA behaviour that’s unreasonable. I always appreciate your input. I'm curious what goes on inside from that end; at this point, knowing what you know, are you aware of the unconscious triggers now? Like do you know that what you think is going on might not really be what's going on, as in, is it easier to identify if it's a faulty thought? I know I also have to ask myself this in many situations, not just romantic connections, but also in workplace settings or otherwise. ( I am not always successful if I'm not thinking hard enough) |
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Post by serenity on Nov 14, 2019 0:47:42 GMT
It's good to know you're not okay with it, but it's also not a conscious thing. I doubt he knows that's why he withdraws which is why he can't just ask for some space. My DA who withdrew in a pattern called me much later on when he had a new gf who couldn't handle his deactivation, and asked me to explain to him why he withdrew so he could have a better conversation with her about it. Since I was the only person he'd ever dated who ended up not going crazy about it, he figured I understood it whereas he actually did not. I didn't know about attachment at the time, but I explained why it was annoying but not ultimately a dealbreaker based on what he had said he was doing in those time periods and how I'd tied that understanding back to other things I knew about him. He then asked me if I could just tell her all that, because what I was saying resonated but he still didn't really understand it! I said uh, no. She's already insecure because you're withdrawing (and was jealous in general), having your ex talk to her about knowing you better than she does is going to just make her dump you, duh!! LMAO! |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 14, 2019 1:12:33 GMT
This is amazing... I can only imagine the look on that girl's face if you did. Yeah, it's a good thing one of us had EQ. |
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Post by serenity on Nov 14, 2019 4:37:09 GMT
For sure, lol. It would have been hurtful, too, with the way he misinterpreted his difficulties with physical intimacy, and adopted that `grass is greener' attitude  You are a very graceful woman, deciding to be a friend to him after all that. He's lucky to have you in his life. I understand it too; he's someone who struggles so much, doesn't mean to cause the harm that he does, and genuinely appreciates and loves you. None of his issues were ever about you, its just a shame he couldn't see that. |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 14, 2019 4:56:02 GMT
For sure, lol. It would have been hurtful, too, with the way he misinterpreted his difficulties with physical intimacy, and adopted that `grass is greener' attitude You are a very graceful woman, deciding to be a friend to him after all that. He's lucky to have you in his life. I understand it too; he's someone who struggles so much, doesn't mean to cause the harm that he does, and genuinely appreciates and loves you. None of his issues were ever about you, its just a shame he couldn't see that. Thank you for your kind words! But this was a long term DA bf from 15 years ago, not the FA I often use to illustrate examples. The DA had zero issues with physical intimacy, but we were incompatible in other ways. And true to DA form, conflict scared the crap out of him and he'd shut down sooner than communicate. So we couldn't talk our way through, but he was always respectful. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 14, 2019 13:41:31 GMT
Dysfunctional behaviour like this isn’t without risk. I deactivated and was so adamant that I couldn’t give her what she needed, that’s exactly what the lady did. She met someone. What could I do? I think that a wake up call is reasonable, and I think it’s reasonable to mention it upon reconnection. I think your needs regarding consistency are reasonable. It’s FA behaviour that’s unreasonable. I always appreciate your input. I'm curious what goes on inside from that end; at this point, knowing what you know, are you aware of the unconscious triggers now? Like do you know that what you think is going on might not really be what's going on, as in, is it easier to identify if it's a faulty thought? I know I also have to ask myself this in many situations, not just romantic connections, but also in workplace settings or otherwise. ( I am not always successful if I'm not thinking hard enough) In another thread dhali talked about the observation of thoughts, and that’s how I treat it. Sometimes one will sneak in and I won’t know I’ve even thought it until I find myself acting like a robot or freaked out or some automatic response. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 22:30:05 GMT
I always appreciate your input. I'm curious what goes on inside from that end; at this point, knowing what you know, are you aware of the unconscious triggers now? Like do you know that what you think is going on might not really be what's going on, as in, is it easier to identify if it's a faulty thought? I know I also have to ask myself this in many situations, not just romantic connections, but also in workplace settings or otherwise. ( I am not always successful if I'm not thinking hard enough) In another thread dhali talked about the observation of thoughts, and that’s how I treat it. Sometimes one will sneak in and I won’t know I’ve even thought it until I find myself acting like a robot or freaked out or some automatic response. I describe mine as... disturbance in the force. lol. I think of myself like an onion - with multiple layers and the bigger the trigger, the more layers are being disturbed. most times if i'm grounded enough, i feel like the core me is stable but the layer right outside the core me is being disturbed by negative emotions/thoughts, and i can feel/observe it. when i'm not grounded enough, those disturbances sneak past my shield and shake my core OR come from the core. I think that's when I know that these triggers are major and/or deeply unconscious. |
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Post by nyc718 on Nov 15, 2019 0:16:16 GMT
In another thread dhali talked about the observation of thoughts, and that’s how I treat it. Sometimes one will sneak in and I won’t know I’ve even thought it until I find myself acting like a robot or freaked out or some automatic response. I describe mine as... disturbance in the force. lol. I think of myself like an onion - with multiple layers and the bigger the trigger, the more layers are being disturbed. most times if i'm grounded enough, i feel like the core me is stable but the layer right outside the core me is being disturbed by negative emotions/thoughts, and i can feel/observe it. when i'm not grounded enough, those disturbances sneak past my shield and shake my core OR come from the core. I think that's when I know that these triggers are major and/or deeply unconscious. Wow, thank you. I have read this a few times because it's taken me a minute to comprehend this. I really appreciate you literally trying to illustrate what it's like for you. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 15, 2019 8:07:53 GMT
...and I’d like to say that it is cumulative. When I’m being pushed, and I know that the other person has an agenda to push, it’ll keep popping its head up with regularity, I find it harder.
In the non relationship that brought me here, she would push for an escalation with regularity in all different ways. Each time I felt like I was in conflict more, and felt like I was being stupid, because after all wasn’t that what caused my marriage to die, etc, etc. The pain just got too much, and then... I don’t need this in my life, I’m better on my own, how on Earth have I got to this stage again and how the hell am I going to get out of this.. and you can see how it goes from there.
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Post by stu on Nov 15, 2019 12:11:09 GMT
...and I’d like to say that it is cumulative. When I’m being pushed, and I know that the other person has an agenda to push, it’ll keep popping its head up with regularity, I find it harder. In the non relationship that brought me here, she would push for an escalation with regularity in all different ways. Each time I felt like I was in conflict more, and felt like I was being stupid, because after all wasn’t that what caused my marriage to die, etc, etc. The pain just got too much, and then... I don’t need this in my life, I’m better on my own, how on Earth have I got to this stage again and how the hell am I going to get out of this.. and you can see how it goes from there. It sounds like you put a lot of pressure and expectations on yourself, as well as being hard on yourself. I am pretty hard on myself too sometimes. I could be wrong with all that but it's how some of it came out to me and is somewhat relatable in the coping till you can't manage it anymore. I would like to mention another example with my ex who was fa in terms of someone feeling pushed and the other person having an agenda. After her de activations. Anytime I see her or talk to her in those time periods. When she's more avoidant and seemingly hostile. Anything I say or do, even being cordially nice for social sake. She will act revolted and be blatantly rude and disrespectful. I felt she was feeling I had an agenda or was still trying to chase her at those times to act like that. When all I was doing was acknowledging her presence and saying hi because I saw her. It's like no matter how normal and friendly I can be, it's taken as harrasment and met with completely turning their back to me, eye rolling, physically walking away without a word, etc. Yet they will still come back later like nothing ever happened after that. Really bizare.but I don't think every FA or avoidant is prone to doing that. |
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Post by nyc718 on Nov 15, 2019 15:34:45 GMT
...and I’d like to say that it is cumulative. When I’m being pushed, and I know that the other person has an agenda to push, it’ll keep popping its head up with regularity, I find it harder. In the non relationship that brought me here, she would push for an escalation with regularity in all different ways. Each time I felt like I was in conflict more, and felt like I was being stupid, because after all wasn’t that what caused my marriage to die, etc, etc. The pain just got too much, and then... I don’t need this in my life, I’m better on my own, how on Earth have I got to this stage again and how the hell am I going to get out of this.. and you can see how it goes from there. Anything I say or do, even being cordially nice for social sake. She will act revolted and be blatantly rude and disrespectful. I felt she was feeling I had an agenda or was still trying to chase her at those times to act like that. When all I was doing was acknowledging her presence and saying hi because I saw her. It's like no matter how normal and friendly I can be, it's taken as harrasment and met with completely turning their back to me, eye rolling, physically walking away without a word, etc. Yet they will still come back later like nothing ever happened after that. Really bizare.but I don't think every FA or avoidant is prone to doing that. I can say that no FAs I have dealt with were like that after deactivation. If anything, it was what I read that FAs, do, pull you back in. But then again, this was after me not contacting during the deactivations. I wasn't contacting or communicating because I didn't want to further engulf. Not sure if you also didn't do any or maybe just minimal contact, but I decided that when deactivations go on, I will disappear too. No point in wasting my time trying to be a "safe" person if it's just going to backfire on me. But also, I'm just at a point where it's so annoying that I don't want to contact. My FA has been out of deactivation and contacted me several times to see me, none of those times which were convenient for me. I do wonder though if that's not a coincidence. He knows the best times to see me and is asking me for times when I can't; is that subconscious on his part? Is that for him to say, well I tried, but she can't/won't see me, therefore self sabotaging and then going to blame me for it? All I know is that I am more and more getting tired of it all, honestly. It shouldn't be this damn hard. And also, he has a history of not making plans ahead of time, which I read is an FA trait because they don't like to think about the future. So a lot of us meeting up is last minute. That is also getting on my last nerve because I like to plan things out sometimes. So I often have left him to go do the things that I had planned in the middle of the day because, well...I had planned for it. So he would seem annoyed that I was leaving for my other plans, and I'm thinking, well, make plans with me, then I won't plan other things! |
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jules
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Post by jules on Nov 15, 2019 16:50:23 GMT
Anything I say or do, even being cordially nice for social sake. She will act revolted and be blatantly rude and disrespectful. I felt she was feeling I had an agenda or was still trying to chase her at those times to act like that. When all I was doing was acknowledging her presence and saying hi because I saw her. It's like no matter how normal and friendly I can be, it's taken as harrasment and met with completely turning their back to me, eye rolling, physically walking away without a word, etc. Yet they will still come back later like nothing ever happened after that. Really bizare.but I don't think every FA or avoidant is prone to doing that. I can say that no FAs I have dealt with were like that after deactivation. If anything, it was what I read that FAs, do, pull you back in. But then again, this was after me not contacting during the deactivations. I wasn't contacting or communicating because I didn't want to further engulf. Not sure if you also didn't do any or maybe just minimal contact, but I decided that when deactivations go on, I will disappear too. No point in wasting my time trying to be a "safe" person if it's just going to backfire on me. But also, I'm just at a point where it's so annoying that I don't want to contact. My FA has been out of deactivation and contacted me several times to see me, none of those times which were convenient for me. I do wonder though if that's not a coincidence. He knows the best times to see me and is asking me for times when I can't; is that subconscious on his part? Is that for him to say, well I tried, but she can't/won't see me, therefore self sabotaging and then going to blame me for it? All I know is that I am more and more getting tired of it all, honestly. It shouldn't be this damn hard. And also, he has a history of not making plans ahead of time, which I read is an FA trait because they don't like to think about the future. So a lot of us meeting up is last minute. That is also getting on my last nerve because I like to plan things out sometimes. So I often have left him to go do the things that I had planned in the middle of the day because, well...I had planned for it. So he would seem annoyed that I was leaving for my other plans, and I'm thinking, well, make plans with me, then I won't plan other things! I agree it is exhausting. And the failure to make plans drives me batty. I though it was due to a committment thing. But that also makes sense. It is truly exhausting and while mine I'd chasing me hard now, I declined plans last night as I preferred the idea of talking to the new one instead. Huge shift for me. He wanted me to date others. Wonder how much hes going to lole it when I cut him off because I am involved with someone else, PER HIS RECOMMENDATION. We shall see. I've said this to you before, you are on almost the same time line as me about a month in retard. I got frustrated and exasperated because it was so much work and it was never about me or us. Only him. |
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Post by nyc718 on Nov 15, 2019 18:39:49 GMT
I agree it is exhausting. And the failure to make plans drives me batty. I though it was due to a committment thing. But that also makes sense. It is truly exhausting and while mine I'd chasing me hard now, I declined plans last night as I preferred the idea of talking to the new one instead. Huge shift for me. He wanted me to date others. Wonder how much hes going to lole it when I cut him off because I am involved with someone else, PER HIS RECOMMENDATION. We shall see. I've said this to you before, you are on almost the same time line as me about a month in retard. I got frustrated and exasperated because it was so much work and it was never about me or us. Only him. [/quote] jules please do update! This last deactivation created a huge shift in me. I'm just really getting over it. We don't fight, we really do care about each other, but only one of us can function. I thought I would be happy we're in contact, but we're not connected and thriving the way we could be, and I want and deserve more. Hope things work out either way for you. |
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Post by nyc718 on Nov 15, 2019 21:10:29 GMT
Also, during our "what are we doing conversation?" what triggered him dismissive (for about ~10 min) was when I said I wanted to see him more and we only hung out once the month before. Which he got dismissive and said "are you counting?" followed by 10 minutes of some not great conversation, and I should've realized there to stop trying to talk about it until he settled down... but I didn't really understand/know at that point. One thing I learned in therapy was to stop the I "should haves". We all did what we knew to do at the time; there was no way we "should have" known anything better at the time. So please be kind to yourself. You actually didn't do anything wrong by pointing out you only saw each other one time in the last month! Are you counting? Well, dude, counting to one isn't that hard, sheesh! That really wasn't about you or what you "should've" realized, it was ALL about him and his triggers. |
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You are a very graceful woman, deciding to be a friend to him after all that. He's lucky to have you in his life. I understand it too; he's someone who struggles so much, doesn't mean to cause the harm that he does, and genuinely appreciates and loves you. None of his issues were ever about you, its just a shame he couldn't see that.