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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 24, 2021 22:44:31 GMT
My post was not about right or wrong…it simply pointed out that jeb used phrasing that highlighted that these actions were grounded in wounds from childhood and unconscious. I am however curious why you are encouraging communication with your ex while you are dating someone else. Is your new partner aware of this arrangement? You and almost all the avoidants on here doesn't seem to get it or perhaps this is a typical case of "auto defence" mode everybody has when accused of something, albeit not personally. Its like you going online and accuse a particular white person of being racist and immediately you'll see a tsunami of people chiming in, turning the blame on you. I've said it time and time again - Having childhood wound does not give anyone the rights to abuse another person. I think all of you are old and mature enough to know if you abuse someone and someone called the cops, "my actions were grounded in wounds from childhood and unconscious" isn't going to wash in court. |
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Post by annieb on Aug 24, 2021 22:47:01 GMT
doctora - please do not get involved with him. You are already too involved by just having these conversations and posting about it. Under no circumstances should you have children wit this man. Understand that this is all your ego validation trap and by apologizing and whatnot he validates your feelings. And that's great, you deserve that. You deserve your feelings heard and validated. But try and leave it at that, because you will never get what you want and need from this man. And he will waste your life. Or you will waste your life, is more like it. See if you can stay on that narrow path you started on, when he dumped you like a coward last year. And when he didn't call you when you had freakin Covid. This man is arrogant and lacks empathy and whatever else. This is not a man to have a child with. Please stay away from him.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 24, 2021 23:01:48 GMT
Also, it is not just a simplistic "blaming the avoidant" and carry on hating. Seems like people are cherry picking my whole experience and only chose to use some points to build up a story to turn the blame back on me (of course, this will be denied by the perpetrator). I suggest people to go read and fully understand my experience and the Hell I went through, the amount of therapy I did and the conclusion I come to after these experiences. Invalidating my therapies and introspection I did over the past year and a half just reeks of the typical avoidant's behaviour.
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 24, 2021 23:08:09 GMT
doctora - please do not get involved with him. You are already too involved by just having these conversations and posting about it. Under no circumstances should you have children wit this man. Understand that this is all your ego validation trap and by apologizing and whatnot he validates your feelings. And that's great, you deserve that. You deserve your feelings heard and validated. But try and leave it at that, because you will never get what you want and need from this man. And he will waste your life. Or you will waste your life, is more like it. See if you can stay on that narrow path you started on, when he dumped you like a coward last year. And when he didn't call you when you had freakin Covid. This man is arrogant and lacks empathy and whatever else. This is not a man to have a child with. Please stay away from him. I agree with Annieb. doctora please tread very very carefully. Yes, attraction never really vanishes for our exes, which is why it is so easy to fall back into the hole again. Think about the Hell he put you through.....If I'm physically there with you, I'll slap some sense into you! Just kidding. But seriously, no. This guy is a walking red flag factory. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 25, 2021 0:16:44 GMT
So dullboat is right, and again, I don’t think he’s been resistant to introspection, I don’t understand that accusation. He’s done a lot of introspection through therapy. And my main point of confusion is, part of the introspective process, like I’ve said before, is the act of getting angry about all the mistreatment and how we thought a hopeless situation was hopeful. And that's the thing the avoidants on here just failed or refuse to see. That after tons of therapy and introspection, I come to the conclusion - screw avoidants. They can't even empathise online, how are they going to empathise in real life? |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 25, 2021 2:41:47 GMT
My post was not about right or wrong…it simply pointed out that jeb used phrasing that highlighted that these actions were grounded in wounds from childhood and unconscious. I am however curious why you are encouraging communication with your ex while you are dating someone else. Is your new partner aware of this arrangement? You and almost all the avoidants on here doesn't seem to get it or perhaps this is a typical case of "auto defence" mode everybody has when accused of something, albeit not personally. Its like you going online and accuse a particular white person of being racist and immediately you'll see a tsunami of people chiming in, turning the blame on you. I've said it time and time again - Having childhood wound does not give anyone the rights to abuse another person. I think all of you are old and mature enough to know if you abuse someone and someone called the cops, "my actions were grounded in wounds from childhood and unconscious" isn't going to wash in co
I believe that a person who would cause such harm as to require police intervention isn’t just dealing with attachment wounds, likely that person also has anger management issues and possibly a personality disorder. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 25, 2021 2:46:25 GMT
So dullboat is right, and again, I don’t think he’s been resistant to introspection, I don’t understand that accusation. He’s done a lot of introspection through therapy. And my main point of confusion is, part of the introspective process, like I’ve said before, is the act of getting angry about all the mistreatment and how we thought a hopeless situation was hopeful. And that's the thing the avoidants on here just failed or refuse to see. That after tons of therapy and introspection, I come to the conclusion - screw avoidants. They can't even empathise online, how are they going to empathise in real life? I have seen no ownership over the choices that you made other then to come to the conclusion that you have been a victim. Also, how was it determined that your ex was only an avoidant and was not dealing with other issues? Also…this may interest you…..see if you find yourself falling into a victim role not just with your ex but with dating possibilities etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_trianglei found the above really interesting and also try to consider when I am in dialogue with others whether I am taking one of the stances mentioned. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 25, 2021 3:04:26 GMT
Also, it is not just a simplistic "blaming the avoidant" and carry on hating. Seems like people are cherry picking my whole experience and only chose to use some points to build up a story to turn the blame back on me (of course, this will be denied by the perpetrator). I suggest people to go read and fully understand my experience and the Hell I went through, the amount of therapy I did and the conclusion I come to after these experiences. Invalidating my therapies and introspection I did over the past year and a half just reeks of the typical avoidant's behaviour. I am not sure who this is in response to…but I view relationships that don’t work an opportunity to see what I need to change in my pattern of picking partners. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 25, 2021 4:04:59 GMT
I believe that a person who would cause such harm as to require police intervention isn’t just dealing with attachment wounds, likely that person also has anger management issues and possibly a personality disorder. Not necessary. Which is why I am not too sure where you come from. But where I'm from, people go to the police and haul the perpetrators to the magistrates from mere accusations of controlling behaviours or even speaking in a threatening manner. To put things into perspective, what my ex did to me, I can easily go to the police to file a DVO and have the magistrates order her not to come within 500m of me. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 25, 2021 4:15:43 GMT
I have seen no ownership over the choices that you made other then to come to the conclusion that you have been a victim. Also, how was it determined that your ex was only an avoidant and was not dealing with other issues? Also…this may interest you…..see if you find yourself falling into a victim role not just with your ex but with dating possibilities etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_trianglei found the above really interesting and also try to consider when I am in dialogue with others whether I am taking one of the stances mentioned. I take ownership that her avoidance triggered my anxieties and protest behaviours. That's from therapy and introspection even when she was still flip flopping with me. I tried my absolute hardest working on myself and my anxieties but as you read from my experience, she kept moving the goal post and no matter what I did, its never good enough. Moreover, I put in 110% when she said we are fixing the relationship whereas looking back, she put in barely 5%. So perhaps calling myself a "victim" might be stretching it a bit....its more so of: "You know what? I've put in 110% and you put in less than the bare minimum. So the problem is not me, its you. So f**k you, for gaslighting me for a whole year and in the end, still putting the blame solely on me.". Which is why after some deep soul searching and (buzzword of the day) introspectively looking inside, I come to the conclusion - screw avoidants. Yes I can be friends with one. They're "nice" people after all, but never in a relationship with one ever again. |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Aug 25, 2021 4:37:24 GMT
I have seen no ownership over the choices that you made other then to come to the conclusion that you have been a victim. Also, how was it determined that your ex was only an avoidant and was not dealing with other issues? Also…this may interest you…..see if you find yourself falling into a victim role not just with your ex but with dating possibilities etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_trianglei found the above really interesting and also try to consider when I am in dialogue with others whether I am taking one of the stances mentioned. I take ownership that her avoidance triggered my anxieties and protest behaviours. That's from therapy and introspection even when she was still flip flopping with me. I tried my absolute hardest working on myself and my anxieties but as you read from my experience, she kept moving the goal post and no matter what I did, its never good enough. Moreover, I put in 110% when she said we are fixing the relationship whereas looking back, she put in barely 5%. So perhaps calling myself a "victim" might be stretching it a bit....its more so of: "You know what? I've put in 110% and you put in less than the bare minimum. So the problem is not me, its you. So f**k you, for gaslighting me for a whole year and in the end, still putting the blame solely on me.". Which is why after some deep soul searching and (buzzword of the day) introspectively looking inside, I come to the conclusion - screw avoidants. Yes I can be friends with one. They're "nice" people after all, but never in a relationship with one ever again. Not all "avoidants" will "screw you over". I'm dating a girl right now, who tests "avoidant", and she puts in effort, and is really working hard on communication a tad more (she's actually not too bad right now baseline) than normal, and I keep the communication a tad higher, but direct. She's actually very loving, caring and intimate and expresses herself, and I'm encouraging her in everyway and supportive. But she realises there are "avoidant coping mechanisms", has owned it, and this obviously doesn't bother me (trigger me) as I'm secure attachment, I do see her quite a bit (at least 4 days a week), and I'm actually flat chat with work here the past year. The girl I previously posted about here, a while ago, who came across as a Fearful-Avoidant, I feel in retrospect had a personality disorder almost (I'd say pushing towards BPD tbh on the spectrum), certainly effected by Complex PTSD, totally different dynamics. I just wouldn't write off people with avoidant attachment so easily. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what attachment style you are, it's if you are mindful of your behaviour, you can do something about it! And create a more peaceful, fulfilling life for yourself in every way. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 4:51:40 GMT
I take ownership that her avoidance triggered my anxieties and protest behaviours. That's from therapy and introspection even when she was still flip flopping with me. I tried my absolute hardest working on myself and my anxieties but as you read from my experience, she kept moving the goal post and no matter what I did, its never good enough. Moreover, I put in 110% when she said we are fixing the relationship whereas looking back, she put in barely 5%. So perhaps calling myself a "victim" might be stretching it a bit....its more so of: "You know what? I've put in 110% and you put in less than the bare minimum. So the problem is not me, its you. So f**k you, for gaslighting me for a whole year and in the end, still putting the blame solely on me.". Which is why after some deep soul searching and (buzzword of the day) introspectively looking inside, I come to the conclusion - screw avoidants. Yes I can be friends with one. They're "nice" people after all, but never in a relationship with one ever again. Not all "avoidants" will "screw you over". I'm dating a girl right now, who tests "avoidant", and she puts in effort, and is really working hard on communication a tad more (she's actually not too bad right now baseline) than normal, and I keep the communication a tad higher, but direct. She's actually very loving, caring and intimate and expresses herself, and I'm encouraging her in everyway and supportive. But she realises there are "avoidant coping mechanisms", has owned it, and this obviously doesn't bother me (trigger me) as I'm secure attachment, I do see her quite a bit (at least 4 days a week), and I'm actually flat chat with work here the past year. The girl I previously posted about here, a while ago, who came across as a Fearful-Avoidant, I feel in retrospect had a personality disorder almost (I'd say pushing towards BPD tbh on the spectrum), certainly effected by Complex PTSD, totally different dynamics. I just wouldn't write off people with avoidant attachment so easily. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what attachment style you are, it's if you are mindful of your behaviour, you can do something about it! And create a more peaceful, fulfilling life for yourself in every way. True true! Avoidant adaptation is a broad spectrum and there is more than one expert, in fact many, that will validate your observations, absolutely. Avoidants can do well with secures, and my boyfriend and I are doing very well in a mutual journey of working to secure. There are not a lot of triggers back and forth, no abuse or even unkindness. Arguments are arguments but every couple either learns how to be productive or destructive with those, whatever attachment style they are. That said, nobody is forcing anyone to go be with an avoidant- so everybody can own their choices, own their mistakes, own their illusions if they have them and own their future by moving on and doing whatever suits them. It's a free world!  |
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 25, 2021 5:02:32 GMT
I take ownership that her avoidance triggered my anxieties and protest behaviours. That's from therapy and introspection even when she was still flip flopping with me. I tried my absolute hardest working on myself and my anxieties but as you read from my experience, she kept moving the goal post and no matter what I did, its never good enough. Moreover, I put in 110% when she said we are fixing the relationship whereas looking back, she put in barely 5%. So perhaps calling myself a "victim" might be stretching it a bit....its more so of: "You know what? I've put in 110% and you put in less than the bare minimum. So the problem is not me, its you. So f**k you, for gaslighting me for a whole year and in the end, still putting the blame solely on me.". Which is why after some deep soul searching and (buzzword of the day) introspectively looking inside, I come to the conclusion - screw avoidants. Yes I can be friends with one. They're "nice" people after all, but never in a relationship with one ever again. Not all "avoidants" will "screw you over". I'm dating a girl right now, who tests "avoidant", and she puts in effort, and is really working hard on communication a tad more (she's actually not too bad right now baseline) than normal, and I keep the communication a tad higher, but direct. She's actually very loving, caring and intimate and expresses herself, and I'm encouraging her in everyway and supportive. But she realises there are "avoidant coping mechanisms", has owned it, and this obviously doesn't bother me (trigger me) as I'm secure attachment, I do see her quite a bit (at least 4 days a week), and I'm actually flat chat with work here the past year. The girl I previously posted about here, a while ago, who came across as a Fearful-Avoidant, I feel in retrospect had a personality disorder almost (I'd say pushing towards BPD tbh on the spectrum), certainly effected by Complex PTSD, totally different dynamics. I just wouldn't write off people with avoidant attachment so easily. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what attachment style you are, it's if you are mindful of your behaviour, you can do something about it! And create a more peaceful, fulfilling life for yourself in every way. Like Doctora said, avoidance, like every other issue, depends on where they sit on the spectrum. And it was also mentioned before by Doctora that an AWARE avoidant, like those on here, are light years away from our exes. Of course, its case to case basis. If I were you, I'd date this girl any day of the week. However extreme avoidants like my ex, its a no go. But then again...."She's actually very loving, caring and intimate and expresses herself, and I'm encouraging her in everyway and supportive."...I could say the same exact thing about my ex during her chasing phase all the way through for a year. Then it all changed once the mask falls off and boy, did she change. Hence that's where the trauma bonding come about, whereby spectators simply could not wrap their heads around why we don't just "leave them". |
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Post by dullboat123 on Aug 25, 2021 5:06:47 GMT
True true! Avoidant adaptation is a broad spectrum and there is more than one expert, in fact many, that will validate your observations, absolutely. Avoidants can do well with secures, and my boyfriend and I are doing very well in a mutual journey of working to secure. There are not a lot of triggers back and forth, no abuse or even unkindness. Arguments are arguments but every couple either learns how to be productive or destructive with those, whatever attachment style they are. That said, nobody is forcing anyone to go be with an avoidant- so everybody can own their choices, own their mistakes, own their illusions if they have them and own their future by moving on and doing whatever suits them. It's a free world! Good for you. Noticed you used the word "mutual"? Doctora's and my ex, there are no mutuality in it. I bet my bottom dollar if your bf is tied to either doctora or my ex, he would check out within a year. |
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Post by theoracle on Aug 25, 2021 7:20:21 GMT
doctora - please do not get involved with him. You are already too involved by just having these conversations and posting about it. Under no circumstances should you have children wit this man. Understand that this is all your ego validation trap and by apologizing and whatnot he validates your feelings. And that's great, you deserve that. You deserve your feelings heard and validated. But try and leave it at that, because you will never get what you want and need from this man. And he will waste your life. Or you will waste your life, is more like it. See if you can stay on that narrow path you started on, when he dumped you like a coward last year. And when he didn't call you when you had freakin Covid. This man is arrogant and lacks empathy and whatever else. This is not a man to have a child with. Please stay away from him. I remember my ex used to tell me the same thing - that we’ll have kids when he feels our relationship is stable enough. For him stability meant perfection, no arguments, me never feeling down etc. so I was always trying to make things better and he was never happy enough. Your ex coming back and validating your feelings must have been great for your confidence and that’s awesome, most of us will never get that. Use it to move on faster and to free yourself from him. |
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