|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 8, 2023 13:27:05 GMT
I'm just putting this out there and would love any thoughts and insights/support.
I've done a lot of work, and lately what's front and center and has been for a little while is loneliness. I do not think it's a pathological loneliness. I think anyone in my shoes would find my situation extremely challenging. I almost feel like my loneliness is a sign of healing....
As an aside, lately I've been feeling envious of families we meet who have 2-3 kids. In some ways, I regret not having more - I keep going over and over in my head how I wish someone had guided me better when I was younger and making poor decisions left and right. This is not a place I want to "accept and get over and let go and not think about" type of thing. It's just something that is showing me that back then I believe I was avoidant.
I've been listening to some speakers on the subject of alarm in some neurodivergent people and how for some autistic people, being fixed on something can provide a sense of safety and control whereas people are just never predictable or truly "safe" because they're complex. I find that interesting and looking back on my history, while I did throw myself at men at times and other times was chased - but once I got into something I was all in and like a puppy (and would get hurt). But mostly, I avoided something more committed -- I used work as my "fixation." Once I started working for myself (in my 20s) I felt like I had something I could control and I often used work to avoid.
I still think people are complex and hard and disappointing and challenging for me. But I know I have more capacity and better skills to handle that now (I would think).
Anyway, there is still a part of me that is so super sensitive. I'm just watching this part and giving her a lot of compassion. She's highly rejection sensitive and the trigger is being in a position of seemingly wanting something from someone and they are seemingly backing out (I say seemingly b/c I can't say for sure what's true for them -- and if it's really me "wanting" something "from" them or if it's just normal relational interaction).
Recently, a friend who I voice text with back and forth like Marco Polo style has her own stuff coming up and didn't message for days. When she did, she sort of let me know she's not going to voice memo for a while. I left her a message and said I was backing off to give her space. No problem. I have enough going on. Did I miss the interactions? Yes. Are they filling a gap for me? Yes - I can talk and feel seen and heard and like someone is out there - even if she's on the other side of the country but it feels like I can have a witness to my days and life goings-on.
So the other night, she leaves me a message and among other things says, "I hope you're not missing the voice memos too much." And goes on to say how she's not available. And I can leave as many memos as I want but she may not be able to respond til after Christmas.
?
I don't know why that needed to be said. It made me feel needy and like we're not in an even exchange. Like I'm a burden she has to manage and sort of negotiate. Of course I got defensive and said "I'm fine here."
She also said, "I'm not as organized as you and can't do voice memos while so much other stuff is going on." Which is fine - but I told her, "I'm not that organized, I just prioritize connection where I can." And that's true lately - I have more going on than she does right now. But I will still find time to sit for 10 minutes and listen to a message.
Anyway. I don't know what to do with that. It makes me kind of want to shut down and go away because I don't want to be a burden to anyone. And she tends to be a people pleaser so I won't know if it's really too much for her.
The other night, another friend who messages me back and forth about stuff - mostly b/c I'm helping her daughter with something and we check in or talk about a food delivery service we both use or other stuff - I had something on my calendar she mentioned to us - a Christmas event. I'd heard nothing from her about it and couldn't even remember if she sent me something or I imagined it. So I asked her b/c it's next week and she wrote a long note about how no, I didn't imagine that and how she's got this and that going on and she's not sure how her daughter is going to be but that if they do go we can go with them but that she's "not really reliable right now."
And my first thought was, My goodness, okay! I won't rely on you! All I asked is to remind me when it was and that sort of thing. It would have been fine to say "Yes, that was me and it was next weekend, but I don't know if we can go now." And just leave it at that.
I stayed with myself and noticed what was coming up and it was the feeling this part of me had that people are like "Hey don't rely on me." As if I'm asking for so much. It feels kind of bewildering. Like is there some message here I'm not getting? If so, I'd like to know. It's a feeling of being "too much" that I got early on.
It's the thing that makes me shrink back from people. The thing that makes me not ask for help in any way. And sends me into confusion about relationships.
I'll leave it at that. I don't know if I'm getting at what's really confusing but hopefully it's clear from what I'm writing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2023 18:17:00 GMT
It is tough to feel like the weird one, too much this or that. That's your own complex though, and if you have an inferiority complex of any kind it will be triggered no matter what the reality is for the other person.
I see you developing your own narrative,which is a kind of neurotic narrative, from other people simply setting boundaries with their time or expressing their own sense of business and perhaps overwhelm.
If your one friend is a people pleaser and has spent more time than really works for her in the messaging back and forth, then it's growth for her to set a limit or express her limitations... it's about her and not just you. An alternative response is to simply be happy for her that she is taking care of herself, it's something we all must learn to do no matter the situation, it's a human thing. It's part of the process with emotional maturity. High five her.
Also part of the process of coming to emotional maturity is not making everything about how poor and neglected and wounded we are. Speaking for myself here too, not just talking at you. It doesn't have to be a big deal, even if you're needy and too much, so what? I'm not being a dick, at least not meaning to be... but seriously so maybe you have a flaw, who's dying over it? Can you live with the idea that maybe you're a little "too much:, whatever that means? If shame comes up, then work with the shame. It's likely blowing this into something much larger than it is. If you're "too much" and the people around you are expressing their limitations, then all is well because you know what works for them and what doesn't, right now. Some people get the message they are "too much". Some people never feel they are enough! Humans are dead set on being miserable and wrong, somehow.
So, from where I sit, no need to make it about how your entire life you've been "too much". The people who sent you that message weren't healthy, from what I can gather from your history here. A bunch of toxic people saying you're too much... while simulataneously you might be feeling like "not enough"... Too much for what? Not enough for what? It doesn't have to have a lot of meaning, everybody is just here to try to find peace. People can take care of themselves without it meaning anything of consequence about you. Your narrative is the bigger issue.
Maybe, maybe not. Just throwing it out there. Maybe I need coffee, I am just rambling now haha.
My son is in a position to need a lot of support in every way right now. He feels bad. He doesn't want to be too much, he's said it again and again. I reassured him, "Look... you don't have to fret about that, because all of us helping are happy to help with what we can, and healthy enough to let you know when we can't, there's no secret suffering happening here. We have things to offer, we have limitations, we are communicating all of that so please rest easy, all is well. If we can, we will, if we can't, we will let you know. We are all able to take good care of outselves, and So far so good. We love you."
He's not too much. You're not too much. People need balance and find balance however they can. If you have higher connection needs, that's not a flaw. It's just your nature maybe, no big deal. If they have lower connection needs, same, it's not an indictment of anyone. So we all have to just figure out how to blend and mix and not be all twisted up about it. Not to say you're twisted up, I'm speaking from my own awareness of my sometimes neurotic perspective. Being HSP, I'm sensitive and over think too... but my dismissive side can be kind if an asset in situatuons where I can either take the path of self-doubt and neurosis
or I can let it go .. it really doesn't have to be a big deal. It just is what it is and it doesn't have to define me, ykwim?
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 8, 2023 18:33:40 GMT
Also part of the process of coming to emotional maturity is not making everything about how poor and neglected and wounded we are. Just to be clear, I'm intentionally speaking in the language of "parts" here which I know isn't a shared language among everyone but while I think I can over-identify with this "part" -- I realize I'm also not that part. But that she needs a lot of healing and that her wounds are real. And while she doesn't make everything about her, she does because the wound apparently is still raw. And in a forum about healing in relationships and becoming more secure, that's what I'm specifically looking for input on. I can work on that part in IFS, on my own, and care for her. But I wonder if there's more practical aspects like this "theme" of friends who have to state things the way that they did -- I think these are people who, looking at it clearly, are really not available--either, in part, due to circumstances but also to their own attachment styles/relational style. The one person is wrapped up in severe OCD that takes over her life. And the other is a parent of kids -- one who needs a lot and both who are homeschooled, etc. I'm still way busier and crazier than both of them and with a lot less support and I'm the one prioritizing the connection. So I wonder if, for myself, instead of feeling defensive (where I have to work on the wounding), I start to be conscious of people who are more available. OR - I think this is really where things get confusing to me-- if that is me speaking from a wounded place. It's like a blindspot. When I would be with emotionally unavailable men, I always thought I was "too much," not realizing than anything was too much for them. And my needs were generally pretty reasonable, but I was always raised to think I was too much. -- And, yes, good for my friend for setting limits; however, I did say "that's fine I'm giving you space." And I did. That was not the problem at all. The issue was when she came back to say "I hope you're not missing voice messaging too much. Etc etc.." And "I'm not as organized as you." It was odd. But it's fine. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 8, 2023 19:02:11 GMT
Your narrative is the bigger issue. Yes, I see that. It's the trigger (that's how I refer to it more than narrative, I guess) I have to work on... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2023 21:51:20 GMT
Also part of the process of coming to emotional maturity is not making everything about how poor and neglected and wounded we are. Just to be clear, I'm intentionally speaking in the language of "parts" here which I know isn't a shared language among everyone but while I think I can over-identify with this "part" -- I realize I'm also not that part. But that she needs a lot of healing and that her wounds are real. And while she doesn't make everything about her, she does because the wound apparently is still raw. And in a forum about healing in relationships and becoming more secure, that's what I'm specifically looking for input on. I can work on that part in IFS, on my own, and care for her. But I wonder if there's more practical aspects like this "theme" of friends who have to state things the way that they did -- I think these are people who, looking at it clearly, are really not available--either, in part, due to circumstances but also to their own attachment styles/relational style. The one person is wrapped up in severe OCD that takes over her life. And the other is a parent of kids -- one who needs a lot and both who are homeschooled, etc. I'm still way busier and crazier than both of them and with a lot less support and I'm the one prioritizing the connection. So I wonder if, for myself, instead of feeling defensive (where I have to work on the wounding), I start to be conscious of people who are more available. OR - I think this is really where things get confusing to me-- if that is me speaking from a wounded place. It's like a blindspot. When I would be with emotionally unavailable men, I always thought I was "too much," not realizing than anything was too much for them. And my needs were generally pretty reasonable, but I was always raised to think I was too much. -- And, yes, good for my friend for setting limits; however, I did say "that's fine I'm giving you space." And I did. That was not the problem at all. The issue was when she came back to say "I hope you're not missing voice messaging too much. Etc etc.." And "I'm not as organized as you." It was odd. But it's fine. So what I'm saying is... for me, at least, awareness is most of the battle. Applying logical thinking to emotional problems is abundantly helpful for me, it may not be for you because we all go at things differently. For me, recognizing that my thinking is faulty and can be replaced with a non-reactive response to situations is like a cool drink of water! Emotions have their origin in a thought... and noticing the thoughts is where I begin to feel relief. It takes time, persistence, to recognize the triggers and reframe them. So with my little kid inside who is all hurt for good reason, I talk to her to let her know that her perspective is based on situations that happened when she was little, with people doing their best but not that great because they were hurting too. Then I let her know there is another way to think of things, and that I've got her and she's not too this or that for me, I love her bunches! And then I take the ball of tangled string away from her and tell her we don't have to untangle it, it's not even our string, its just a mess of string essentially. I cut it from around her fingers and any time she picks it up, if I'm paying attention, I do the same thing. My patience is endless because nobody else's was. I'm nice to her because nobody else was, back then. I give her nice things to do, nice things to think, encouragement, because nobody could muster that for her before. Logic is the mother and father I never had. Also, logic provides me big hugs because that's what I need. It's all logic to me, regarless of how much emotion is there logic wins. That's just me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2023 23:47:00 GMT
So here, I'm seeing that my approach is not to look too much at the externals... I tend to try to take care of the internal processes through changing my perspective. Rather than think of how to change up externals, I try change up my insides. Maybe an avoidant strategy, maybe just an example of how we all have different temperaments that cause us to lean one way or another.
It seems you have some pretty specific needs as far as wanting to associate with people who can relate to your hardships, and those people are going to have challenges with availability. You have them yourself because you're in survival a lot of the time. You have a lot of demands on you. You have expressed kind of an impatience or lack of connection with people who are living without such hardships, so it's a conundrum in my view.
So my perspective may or may not be helpful, I get that. I think I have a lower need for connection and being "seen: although I've felt triggered by that stuff in the past so I do understand it. But the less you need other people, the easier life is, who can argue with that? Not saying be needless, but at the end of the day, nobody can be for us what we can't be for ourselves.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 9, 2023 2:20:11 GMT
Also part of the process of coming to emotional maturity is not making everything about how poor and neglected and wounded we are. Just to be clear, I'm intentionally speaking in the language of "parts" here which I know isn't a shared language among everyone but while I think I can over-identify with this "part" -- I realize I'm also not that part. But that she needs a lot of healing and that her wounds are real. And while she doesn't make everything about her, she does because the wound apparently is still raw. And in a forum about healing in relationships and becoming more secure, that's what I'm specifically looking for input on. I can work on that part in IFS, on my own, and care for her. But I wonder if there's more practical aspects like this "theme" of friends who have to state things the way that they did -- I think these are people who, looking at it clearly, are really not available--either, in part, due to circumstances but also to their own attachment styles/relational style. The one person is wrapped up in severe OCD that takes over her life. And the other is a parent of kids -- one who needs a lot and both who are homeschooled, etc. I'm still way busier and crazier than both of them and with a lot less support and I'm the one prioritizing the connection. So I wonder if, for myself, instead of feeling defensive (where I have to work on the wounding), I start to be conscious of people who are more available. OR - I think this is really where things get confusing to me-- if that is me speaking from a wounded place. It's like a blindspot. When I would be with emotionally unavailable men, I always thought I was "too much," not realizing than anything was too much for them. And my needs were generally pretty reasonable, but I was always raised to think I was too much. -- And, yes, good for my friend for setting limits; however, I did say "that's fine I'm giving you space." And I did. That was not the problem at all. The issue was when she came back to say "I hope you're not missing voice messaging too much. Etc etc.." And "I'm not as organized as you." It was odd. But it's fine. I have a saying….you do you….and helps me to remember that that person is not “me” and it is best to check my assumptions before reacting to it. So much gets lost over text…body language, facial expression, tone. When I read your friend’s text…I read it as….look, I know I am asking for a break and I know you and I have really treasured our back and forth…so I don’t want to lose our friendship and I want you to know that I am not asking you to stop texting me…this is my issue and I might not get back to you till after the holidays…but feel free to still reach out. Same text, different interpretation. If I were in your shoes, I would spend more time validating your sensitive part’s perspective versus defending it. It is obviously young and needs some guidance from the more mature part of you on how to validate her reactions. It will help her become more empowered, it will help you to stop being defensive. Just a thought. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 10, 2023 14:18:20 GMT
Thanks for your input, Introvert and Tnr9.
Tnr9 - what you wrote is a lovely interpretation. I think what's happening is not "neurotic" like Introvert is saying, but hypervigilance. I think my nervous system has gone into such heightened alert over protecting itself around how it might get hurt *in the same way* (and of course our brains will sort of expand on that) -- so for instance, out of context what this person said on the voice message could easily be interpreted as what you wrote. But in general, I get the sense that I am "too much" for her. (not for me, but for her). And that's fair - people can be too much for each other. It's not a "so what" in my mind, it's a boundary violation. And I don't want to violate anyone's boundaries. And this is a person who really has no boundaries or has a very hard time with them.
So great that she is setting one. But it's hard for me to trust.
I have a friend, by comparison, who has heavy boundaries - she let's you know literally every few minutes of conversation where she stands on something. Like will interrupt and say, "Hang on a minute, I don't think that's true." Etc. And while she's hard to talk to, I know where i stand with her.
I also have a former friend who became too much for me. I miss her. And I wish we could still be friends, but I wouldn't be kind if I weren't honest that I think she has a lot of traits that are unhealthy and hard for me to be around, so I'm not around her. And it sucks for me. I lost someone I really care about, but I don't have the capacity for her. So I don't pretend I do.
With people like the person in question - I don't want to feel like someone always has to push me away. That's early stuff for me, and in a lot of my romantic relationships and it's not pleasant. And yet...
I think what it comes down to is who draws the boundary then?
I know all this seems like splitting hairs and untangling balls of yarn, or whatever, but I'm able to see the huge progress in my own healing here... which is that if that person can't draw the boundary, then I will. And that's progress. So rather than bypass and kind of go "Ah, she meant well," I don't know if that's truly serving anyone. Maybe it can to patch things up for a time, but deeper down, I don't know...
And this is the thing, in the past, I would shut down. Kind of go into avoidance mode. But this feels different. I have information and what I do with it feels like the progress. I'm not shutting down. Am I feeling hurt? Yes, because it's hitting on a wound that is still there. But it's my wound to tend to.
So that's all. I think I have my answer, I guess.
What do you do with someone who says "Hey I need space." And you say, "Hey no problem." And then they come back a week later and leave you a longer message and say, "Hey hope you're not missing this too much. Go ahead and leave as many messages as you want." And "I'm not as organized as you."
"Ah, okay. I already said it's fine."
And then I got more messages last night.
So are we taking space? It's confusing. Mostly because my "parts" are open and trusting and like "Oh, okay, I'll hang out." And then they're like "Oh wait, so we'll chat again. There you are."
It's early stuff - I'm here, no I'm not. You can rely on me. Well, no you can't. And so I see where my protector parts are "on" (basically they're probably the ones who wrote the original post)... Deb Dana says it simply "Protection or connection," And I'd like to stay in a space of connection, but see how I can get triggered in some situations to protect.
And no adult human has to be my safe attachment figure. I do. But I still have the ability to choose relationships that are -- safe-r. More reliable, with people who are more available. And that's my struggle. Which I'll say more about in another post. This got long!
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Dec 10, 2023 17:03:50 GMT
Thanks for your input, Introvert and Tnr9. Tnr9 - what you wrote is a lovely interpretation. I think what's happening is not "neurotic" like Introvert is saying, but hypervigilance. I think my nervous system has gone into such heightened alert over protecting itself around how it might get hurt *in the same way* (and of course our brains will sort of expand on that) -- so for instance, out of context what this person said on the voice message could easily be interpreted as what you wrote. But in general, I get the sense that I am "too much" for her. (not for me, but for her). And that's fair - people can be too much for each other. It's not a "so what" in my mind, it's a boundary violation. And I don't want to violate anyone's boundaries. And this is a person who really has no boundaries or has a very hard time with them. So great that she is setting one. But it's hard for me to trust. I have a friend, by comparison, who has heavy boundaries - she let's you know literally every few minutes of conversation where she stands on something. Like will interrupt and say, "Hang on a minute, I don't think that's true." Etc. And while she's hard to talk to, I know where i stand with her. I also have a former friend who became too much for me. I miss her. And I wish we could still be friends, but I wouldn't be kind if I weren't honest that I think she has a lot of traits that are unhealthy and hard for me to be around, so I'm not around her. And it sucks for me. I lost someone I really care about, but I don't have the capacity for her. So I don't pretend I do. With people like the person in question - I don't want to feel like someone always has to push me away. That's early stuff for me, and in a lot of my romantic relationships and it's not pleasant. And yet... I think what it comes down to is who draws the boundary then? I know all this seems like splitting hairs and untangling balls of yarn, or whatever, but I'm able to see the huge progress in my own healing here... which is that if that person can't draw the boundary, then I will. And that's progress. So rather than bypass and kind of go "Ah, she meant well," I don't know if that's truly serving anyone. Maybe it can to patch things up for a time, but deeper down, I don't know... And this is the thing, in the past, I would shut down. Kind of go into avoidance mode. But this feels different. I have information and what I do with it feels like the progress. I'm not shutting down. Am I feeling hurt? Yes, because it's hitting on a wound that is still there. But it's my wound to tend to. So that's all. I think I have my answer, I guess. What do you do with someone who says "Hey I need space." And you say, "Hey no problem." And then they come back a week later and leave you a longer message and say, "Hey hope you're not missing this too much. Go ahead and leave as many messages as you want." And "I'm not as organized as you." "Ah, okay. I already said it's fine." And then I got more messages last night. So are we taking space? It's confusing. Mostly because my "parts" are open and trusting and like "Oh, okay, I'll hang out." And then they're like "Oh wait, so we'll chat again. There you are." It's early stuff - I'm here, no I'm not. You can rely on me. Well, no you can't. And so I see where my protector parts are "on" (basically they're probably the ones who wrote the original post)... Deb Dana says it simply "Protection or connection," And I'd like to stay in a space of connection, but see how I can get triggered in some situations to protect. And no adult human has to be my safe attachment figure. I do. But I still have the ability to choose relationships that are -- safe-r. More reliable, with people who are more available. And that's my struggle. Which I'll say more about in another post. This got long! The thing is…people are complicated and sure…that friend might not be a good fit for you…or….as an adult…you can be curious about why they reached out and you can ask questions that your sensitive part could not. I went through the same…I have journals where I engaged with my sensitive part and defended it….but I found for me…that was not what was needed…because the world is not going to adapt to you and it simply left me angry, defensive and lonely all the time. I took this wonderful class where we discussed how belonging starts with you. How was I offering “belonging”? Who was I attracting into my universe. For me…I had to get very clear where I ended and another person began…I had to consider that my nervous system was reacting to very old tapes from a time when I had no voice, no choice, no say in how a relationship progressed. I had to forgive my parents for their lack of good parental skills due to their own upbringings and generations of poor parenting. My mom still has boundaries that feels like brick walls….but that is her…that is all her and has nothing to do with me. If I let those walls impact me, then I am doing my happiness, my independence, my maturity a great injustice. In that acceptance there is freedom of choice….and choice is sooooo important to me. I was denied it so many times when I was younger but now whenever I can, I look to create choice. And part of choice for me is being curious about another person. Why are they doing that? Why would your friend reach out after putting up a boundary? Obviously she has some poor communication skills going on…but is that worth ending a friendship? Only you can answer that. Only you can determine how you want to move forward…but loneliness is an indicator that something is missing and your “tribe” might end up being really small….but you do get to decide in the end the steps forward. You can love your sensitive part and be curious about others who activate her. It isn’t black/white but lovely shades of grey. Good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Dec 11, 2023 1:51:43 GMT
I think is entire situation with a friend is a great time to re-parent your inner child. While you can and should 100% validate her and nurture her, part of re-parenting is to teach you to stand in your adult space instead of reverting back to your child self.
"Recently, a friend who I voice text with back and forth like Marco Polo style has her own stuff coming up and didn't message for days. When she did, she sort of let me know she's not going to voice memo for a while. I left her a message and said I was backing off to give her space. No problem. I have enough going on. Did I miss the interactions? Yes. Are they filling a gap for me? Yes - I can talk and feel seen and heard and like someone is out there - even if she's on the other side of the country but it feels like I can have a witness to my days and life goings-on.
So the other night, she leaves me a message and among other things says, "I hope you're not missing the voice memos too much." And goes on to say how she's not available. And I can leave as many memos as I want but she may not be able to respond til after Christmas.
?
I don't know why that needed to be said. It made me feel needy and like we're not in an even exchange. Like I'm a burden she has to manage and sort of negotiate. Of course I got defensive and said "I'm fine here."
She also said, "I'm not as organized as you and can't do voice memos while so much other stuff is going on." Which is fine - but I told her, "I'm not that organized, I just prioritize connection where I can." And that's true lately - I have more going on than she does right now. But I will still find time to sit for 10 minutes and listen to a message.
Anyway. I don't know what to do with that. It makes me kind of want to shut down and go away because I don't want to be a burden to anyone. And she tends to be a people pleaser so I won't know if it's really too much for her."
I can definitely see what others have said here about your old scripts are getting in the way for you.
I see a friend who is terrible at boundaries trying to communicate a boundary with you. Do you think perhaps her reaching back out to validate the boundary, was her sensing that you were indeed not cool, and she cares enough to check in? And then turning around and saying "I'm fine here" (when you are actually not) is actually perpetuating an insecure dynamic. If someone shot back at me that they just prioritize the connection with me and the subtext is you don't prioritize me to the level I prioritize you. There is now a sense of obligation and guilt, and I would possibly start to back off. If there are many interactions like that, I would start to interact less.
A big part of my healing was learning how to make myself a safe space for others. No one healthy is going to come closer to us if we do not offer them a safe place to do so. This would be an amazing opportunity to be honest with your friend that you do miss her but you understand she is busy. Then you are allowing her to either rise to the occasion or fail. Either way you know her ability to connect on the level you would desire.
No one can be available and able to connect 100% of the time, especially not a friend. I see resentment in your writing that you prioritize your connection with others and they always let you down because they don't do the same to you. While I understand how horrible it is to feel lonely, and too much, I also had to learn to accept people for who they are and what they are able to offer me and then make decisions based on that.
Have you taken the time to express any curiosity or concern, or even empathy that she feels that busy? Christmas can be a very emotional time for people, we don't know how they feel about the holiday and it can bring up all sorts of feelings, let alone the expectations of gifts and festivities and celebrations, etc. For me it is the anniversary of my moms death. So I become very emotionally unavailable this time of year, even with nothing else going on, the grief alone makes it hard for me to show up for others.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 11, 2023 3:16:46 GMT
Thanks TNR. I haven't gotten a chance to write the other piece of this that I realized.
Introvert used the word "indictment" and this is not meant to be an indictment of my friend.... or anyone. But it's showing me something. And I'm always growing and changing and learning and it's important me to shine a light on these triggers and wounds both so they can heal and also so I can "course correct" and grow.
I'm not ending any friendships here. I think I'm just seeing the checks and balances and a codependency pattern that is still very much alive for me and needs help/work/attention. I really thought I was done with codependency... but I still have a strong rescue tendency and a strong tendency to give way more than I receive.
So while I think there was a big trigger that harkened to wounding... I also see how my current state of feeling depleted (what I recently told a colleague) - is a pattern. It's mixed in with a chronic lack of support and feeling isolated and that this has been my whole life.
And, again, while I am not indicting my friend. And I'm not ending anything. I have to take a look at some checks and balances and how much I'm willing to give to people (although I think to a degree, it's rescue) and whether it is even wanted or not.
For the new year, I'll be looking at this more closely - both my own finances and just my habit of "overspending" in many areas -- which may not be "overspending" if I'm actually receiving more.
So for all that I give to my daughter (which gets replenished in some ways), I have to find ways to nourish myself back.
For all I pour to my clients, I have to be compensated or give less than I do
For all that I am willing to offer to friends, I have to just witness or pray or be able to give from what I can - where I usually help and support and offer consoling, etc.
For all my constant "doing" because I'm single and every task is done alone by me (with the help of my daughter where she can sometimes with chores), I have to give back to myself some downtime and non-doing.
I'm not upset with these friends in question - it's okay that my friend told me she can't be reliable right now after she was the one who invited us somewhere and I simply asked her about it. Or someone said - hey I can't talk til after Christmas and I get signals like I'm too much. It's fine. I've actually made peace with it more now. But I think, like I said, it feels a bit like a theme with people who aren't reliable, aren't available, don't have much capacity, and even simple exchanges can feel like "too much." Maybe it's the time of year, I don't know. But it's pretty much the exact work I did with my sister... and it's repeating here in these two situations.
I need to figure out what in me is still drawn to this pattern or why it is active. If that makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by sunrisequest on Dec 11, 2023 3:21:11 GMT
I was going to say the same thing as Username... I have been in the position of your friend in the last year and I've had to give similar explanations that I am just not as available as usual for almost everyone in my life... it's interesting the way people reacted - there were some who said they were okay with it, but their cool, short responses and lack of concern about what might be going on in my life to make me less available was a clear sign they weren't okay with it, and their responses added extra stress at a time where I just truly needed support and understanding as I didn't have the bandwidth to even reply to messages, let alone offer deeper connection.
Being curious and concerned about someone else's experience is a compassionate way to approach it, and get more information about a situation, because there are often legitimate reasons for a period of disconnection between friends/family members/partners. It's normal and healthy for relationships to go through seasons of more intense connection and then periods of it being less. We all have so much going on, yes, but not everyone has the same coping mechanisms when overwhelm comes. It's a new thing for me to shut down and protect my energy when I feel overwhelmed, but I'm trying to honour that my body actually needs it at times. Seems like I'm embracing a few avoidant traits as part of my journey, and actually, I quite like that rather than anxious responses of clinging and oversharing!
It does sound like trying to validate her boundary was just an awkward way of your friend checking if you were okay about it, and perhaps trying to let you know it's not your fault. I agree with Username that being honest that you miss the connection but you're understanding of her situation and welcome connection when she's got the space for it would be a way to show her you care, and see what she's got.
I have a very, very close friend who dropped off the face of the earth a few years ago, and she wasn't there for me in some very vulnerable times when I needed her, and she made little to no effort for a long time. I initially felt very hurt, but I got some therapy at the time, which made me see it was most likely not to do with me and more likely something going on in her life, so I just maintained limited contact just to keep things ticking over... basically just reminded her I was there and cared about her... turned out she was having a huge breakdown, and there was so much going on nobody knew about. I am so glad I maintained contact and didn't cut her off. You just don't know what's going on for some people, and connection doesn't have to always be given in equal amounts all the time, sometimes we have to approach it with compassion and give without expecting to receive.
|
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 11, 2023 3:23:26 GMT
I can definitely see what others have said here about your old scripts are getting in the way for you. I see a friend who is terrible at boundaries trying to communicate a boundary with you. Do you think perhaps her reaching back out to validate the boundary, was her sensing that you were indeed not cool, and she cares enough to check in? And then turning around and saying "I'm fine here" (when you are actually not) is actually perpetuating an insecure dynamic. Yes, this is probably what happened. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 11, 2023 3:32:08 GMT
A big part of my healing was learning how to make myself a safe space for others. This sounds good, but I think I have to do this with myself first. I don't do "inner child" work as much as parts work. It's a little different. But I've been looking at a part that is more alive lately (I think related to all I've been writing about) who has a feeling of chronic emptiness. I know the mom that I am to my daughter and the counsel I am to my clients - who come to me basically in a nutshell to be heard and seen when few others can hear and see them in their lives. I'm really good at doing it for other people. I'm maybe a bit lousy at doing it for myself. I just remember how mis-understood and alone I felt through most of my life growing up. Like no one asked what I thought about this, why I cared about that, why this upset or hurt me, or what interested me about that. I would have liked to have been known and seen for who I was rather than misunderstood as some "quiet child" and then later very troubled teen. And I think that part of me is still trying to find people who will hear her and see her and want to know her and understand her. But can feel like too much to even sit with myself. I'm meeting more and more people through my church and various other ways... and I don't even really want to talk about myself. Sometimes it's enough just to sit with someone - like we did the other night (my daughter, myself, a man in the play my daughter was in) and eat ice cream and share some simple stuff about our lives. I'm not really all complex and sensitive and victimy out in the world around other people. I know it's just my inner world and it feels like a burden. I am a safe space for others for a living. Whoever I am at work, I don't know. It's a thing I've cultivated, but in my personal life I clearly still have unhealthy dynamics. This isn't making sense. It's late and been a long weekend but I'll digest this some more and come back. Thank you. |
|
|
|
Post by seeking on Dec 11, 2023 13:48:20 GMT
sunrisequest - interesting when I was reading what you wrote - the last paragraph, something made me realize a great deal of loss that I am not owning. I know that in general I have abandonment issues, and wounded parts like I've been talking about but -- in the past year, my mom's cognitive decline means that she doesn't really call me anymore to ask how I am (not that she used to very much) but there is a huge shift there. And one of my closest friends "disappeared" - the last email exchange was this time last year. He's been passively suicidal our entire relationship - 20 years, almost. And I'm afraid he's gone. And I don't have the capacity to try to find out (I'd have to look up his obit). I was in a grief group, but someone in the group legit went a bit crazy and it was too much for me. She was being really toxic, and I just left. I mentioned it to the person we're talking about here - but the person we're talking about said "I wish I could be there." The thing is the person we're talking about has severe OCD and agoraphobia. Yesterday she left another message saying she missed a friend's wedding and wished she could go. But knowing her, she never would have gone. She doesn't even go to the grocery store. Right now the reason she can't be in contact (or so she says, because she has) is because her OCD is flaring. And that's where I've gotten into trouble is both in trying to help her and then kind of feeling like I was enabling her. So right now, I'm expressing compassion b/c I know she's in hell. And I had a big event Sat night that she remembered and asked about and I told her a few minutes so not to burden her. But I don't feel resentment anymore. I just feel like the reality is I need more in general - not from her. But this is the exact work I did with my sister. Just finally accepting she's not going to be able to have the relationship I would want. The other night (again b/c I had a big thing Saturday) she let me talk for like 7 mins. That was record-breaking for her to "listen" for 7 whole minutes and not interrupt me or talk about herself. So while I completely get people's un-availability - I think the bigger issue is my connections with people who are pretty unavailable. And why the instant I think about available people, I start to feel overwhelmed. So there's that...
|
|
