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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 3:20:26 GMT
It's a little odd, Feels less like a conversation and more like a bunch of questions, but I understand it's difficult for the 2 sides to understand the other. Thank you guest for your kind words. Trying to understand how others process emotions is tricky.
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Post by bedlam71 on Feb 7, 2018 3:25:19 GMT
So how do you find out information without asking questions? I mean, Seriously. I'm done. Best of luck.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 3:27:51 GMT
bedlam, i think a lot of your posts on other threads seem to be judge mental or negative interpretations of avoidant behavior, assuming the worst in terms of avoidant motivations. but i think a lot of people are also sincerely trying to help you understand their perspectives. So there’s a lot of good stuff that comes out of some seemingly judgemental or negative posts. then it seems like posters remind you of certain things and you feel better and understand academically but then quickly revert to judgements or negative interpretations elsewhere on other threads. I don’t feel offended at all, i see you really struggling to cope with your breakup and i recognize that. and my participation is voluntary, i can pull back at any time. have you done any reading at all of the literature on attachment theory? it’s realky helpful. For tonight. i am turning in! G’nite all!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 3:34:38 GMT
So how do you find out information without asking questions? I mean, Seriously. I'm done. Best of luck. Whoa. I don't think anyone is saying not to ask questions. It's more just that typically there's more of a sharing back and forth on threads. With sharing on both sides, we can all move forward
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 3:47:33 GMT
So how do you find out information without asking questions? I mean, Seriously. I'm done. Best of luck. also the owner of this forum wrote some books and there is a vast body of literature that addresses attachment theory, those are great sources of information that can help you with the information you seek.
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Post by guest on Feb 7, 2018 3:48:26 GMT
Mary, i'll pick up where bedlam left off... have you ever approached a partner and stated something along the lines of "Hey, i love you but am feeling pretty smothered right now, can i ask you for a little space a this time in our relationship."?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 4:40:32 GMT
Mary, i'll pick up where bedlam left off... have you ever approached a partner and stated something along the lines of "Hey, i love you but am feeling pretty smothered right now, can i ask you for a little space a this time in our relationship."? Yep, not the exact words, but similar. In my last relationship, my partner made it easy. I asked for space and he never had a problem with it. He was not AP so space didn't bother him. In relationships with APs, it was quite different. I would request space/alone time and it would upset them. They couldn't give it to me, so I had to withdraw without further communication. I felt it was the only way. This was back when I had no clue about attachments or triggers. I really had no idea what was going on and I was in the trap. So I do see now how these situations arise and how they are perplexing for both sides.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 5:18:44 GMT
Mary, i'll pick up where bedlam left off... have you ever approached a partner and stated something along the lines of "Hey, i love you but am feeling pretty smothered right now, can i ask you for a little space a this time in our relationship."? Yep, not the exact words, but similar. In my last relationship, my partner made it easy. I asked for space and he never had a problem with it. He was not AP so space didn't bother him. In relationships with APs, it was quite different. I would request space/alone time and it would upset them. They couldn't give it to me, so I had to withdraw without further communication. I felt it was the only way. This was back when I had no clue about attachments or triggers. I really had no idea what was going on and I was in the trap. So I do see now how these situations arise and how they are perplexing for both sides. honestly this was my experience as well with an anxious partner and i couldn’t understand it at all. i actually had no idea that how i lived with lots of space around me was abnormal in any way, so i didn’t know to ask for space or time alone. i just was confused! i remember thinking that it was great to sit together outside in silence and just look at the trees and listen to the birds, i felt it was perfect but looked over to see him seething at being ignored. i was so irritated by this. i felt like everything was always ruined. I didn’t know about attachment types or anything i just couldn’t figure out why he was so mad all the time. He would get so angry and i hadn’t felt i had done anything wrong at all, it was absolutely maddening to me. i was in the trap too because i stayed and kept trying to talk him out of his anger or retreat from it. gawd it was awful. a real trap. he of course was clearly miserable thinking i was ignoring him but i just lived in my head. it wasn’t intentional until he got mad. i got mad too! ugh.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 5:23:09 GMT
now of course i see that my high need for “space” “solitude” “independence” is somewhat remarkable to some people but i still sometimes forget that a lot of people aren’t like that.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 7, 2018 7:13:11 GMT
Absolutely - this is the point that I have also reached - and I think it's only respectful to the other person to allow this process to happen, to give them the ability to either journey in this direction on there own or to choose that the path is too difficult. It is natural to want things to be different - but it's mature to see things as they are and allow them to be inspite of our own preferences - I think that's where true growth can happen for both partners. Control and manipulation however well meaning - suggesting that "I know best" is not appropriate in a grown up equal relationship. The other side of that is the person that wants to communicate and it feels disrespectful when getting stonewalled and can't have a dialogue. From what I have read there seem to be alot of instances where an the partner of an avoidant individual participates in a kind of semi relationship in the hope that things will change and interprets things -ie expressions of love, intermittent and confusing behaviour, conflicting statements, with their own glasses - perhaps rose tinted ones. Often the avoidant is directly communicating through words or indirectly through actions that they can't do this relationship - or at least not in a way that will satisfytheir partner. For whatever reason, we stay - maybe it's the oxytocin high of intimacy, maybe it's intermittent reinforcement, maybe past family history. When the bubble bursts for the partner - or the avoidant leaves and suddenly there's no contact it may appear disrespectful - for many people talking things out is a way to get out and away from the horrors of uncertainty and perhaps had the honest talking happened whilst the relationship was in one piece and both partners actually believed what the other was saying, things would not have lasted that long. Clinging to hope makes the loss and the silience that comes after, very very painful. What I believe is it is up to us to listen to each other - through words and actions - being with someone who is ambiguous is not a recipe for healthy relating and being with someone who says they don't want a relationship doesn't mean they need sorting out and fixing by you, it's a signal to yourself to exit however difficult and leave them to get on with their own journey without inflicting damage upon yourself. Stonewalling and then reappearing asthough nothing has happen needs calling up and discussing when in a relationship and at this point you get to decide whether or not it works for you. Lack of contact with someone who have communicated that they are not capable of relating to you or don't want a relationship is not the same thing - it's painful because you want something from that person and the supply has been cut but whilst it seems cruel what is cruel in reality is staying in a relationship that is damaging to you, I know having been there, that in many ways the silence is a blessing that allows you to really process pain and move onwards - you can choose to see it that way or to feel victimised and take it personally or continue in attempts to understand which in reality keep you stuck/ So difficult I know and my heart goes out to everyone in that kind of situation at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 13:03:12 GMT
The other side of that is the person that wants to communicate and it feels disrespectful when getting stonewalled and can't have a dialogue. From what I have read there seem to be alot of instances where an the partner of an avoidant individual participates in a kind of semi relationship in the hope that things will change and interprets things -ie expressions of love, intermittent and confusing behaviour, conflicting statements, with their own glasses - perhaps rose tinted ones. Often the avoidant is directly communicating through words or indirectly through actions that they can't do this relationship - or at least not in a way that will satisfytheir partner. For whatever reason, we stay - maybe it's the oxytocin high of intimacy, maybe it's intermittent reinforcement, maybe past family history. When the bubble bursts for the partner - or the avoidant leaves and suddenly there's no contact it may appear disrespectful - for many people talking things out is a way to get out and away from the horrors of uncertainty and perhaps had the honest talking happened whilst the relationship was in one piece and both partners actually believed what the other was saying, things would not have lasted that long. Clinging to hope makes the loss and the silience that comes after, very very painful. What I believe is it is up to us to listen to each other - through words and actions - being with someone who is ambiguous is not a recipe for healthy relating and being with someone who says they don't want a relationship doesn't mean they need sorting out and fixing by you, it's a signal to yourself to exit however difficult and leave them to get on with their own journey without inflicting damage upon yourself. Stonewalling and then reappearing asthough nothing has happen needs calling up and discussing when in a relationship and at this point you get to decide whether or not it works for you. Lack of contact with someone who have communicated that they are not capable of relating to you or don't want a relationship is not the same thing - it's painful because you want something from that person and the supply has been cut but whilst it seems cruel what is cruel in reality is staying in a relationship that is damaging to you, I know having been there, that in many ways the silence is a blessing that allows you to really process pain and move onwards - you can choose to see it that way or to feel victimised and take it personally or continue in attempts to understand which in reality keep you stuck/ So difficult I know and my heart goes out to everyone in that kind of situation at the moment. perfectly stated. and i would add that if someone doesn’t want to communicate, that’s their right. none of us are entitled to what we want from a partner. i could see where persistent insistence on communication could be seen as extremely controlling and in relationships i have had, abusive. My No means No wether you like it or not actually, and i often had very good reasons for refusing. Most often because there was such bias confirmation insanity going on, it didn’t matter what i said and i was cornered and blindsided and emotionally abused by another’s constant negative interpretations and accusations. Ultimately i left because i absolutely hated the “relationship” and no longer wanted to have anything to do with my “partner”. Again, that was my right and my choice. Who says we can’t end relationships? who says we have to stay and work it out on someone else’s terms? we don’t. relationships end all the time. it’s a fact of life. humans are messy. To think that one partner in the anxious/avoidance dance is more loving than the other or more capable of healthy relating is a delusion in my opinion.
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Post by mrob on Feb 7, 2018 15:18:33 GMT
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I don't have to do or be who someone wants. If I don't answer your texts immediately, or do things at my pace, that's my business. Inconsiderate, yes, but my business all the same. Keep calling, texting, Facebook messaging and I will back away. At the end of the day, other people are their own people and can decide whether or not to participate in a relationship based on their own assessment of the situation. That's their business.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 15:36:24 GMT
Couldn't have said it better myself. I don't have to do or be who someone wants. If I don't answer your texts immediately, or do things at my pace, that's my business. Inconsiderate, yes, but my business all the same. Keep calling, texting, Facebook messaging and I will back away. At the end of the day, other people are their own people and can decide whether or not to participate in a relationship based on their own assessment of the situation. That's their business. BINGO! and with all due respect, i am going to withdraw from this thread simply because i have offered all the support and perspective that i am able to. Here we have an anxious person seeking answers and support , and we have avoidants volunteering their time to offer it, while still seeing avoidant actions and motivations interpreted in the most negative light by the questioning poster, in other threads. i don’t feel annoyed just that i have nothing more to offer here, and respectfully withdraw and wish the very best to all who suffer, sincerely.
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 7, 2018 18:01:39 GMT
The other side of that is the person that wants to communicate and it feels disrespectful when getting stonewalled and can't have a dialogue. From what I have read there seem to be alot of instances where an the partner of an avoidant individual participates in a kind of semi relationship in the hope that things will change and interprets things -ie expressions of love, intermittent and confusing behaviour, conflicting statements, with their own glasses - perhaps rose tinted ones. Often the avoidant is directly communicating through words or indirectly through actions that they can't do this relationship - or at least not in a way that will satisfytheir partner. For whatever reason, we stay - maybe it's the oxytocin high of intimacy, maybe it's intermittent reinforcement, maybe past family history. When the bubble bursts for the partner - or the avoidant leaves and suddenly there's no contact it may appear disrespectful - for many people talking things out is a way to get out and away from the horrors of uncertainty and perhaps had the honest talking happened whilst the relationship was in one piece and both partners actually believed what the other was saying, things would not have lasted that long. Clinging to hope makes the loss and the silience that comes after, very very painful. What I believe is it is up to us to listen to each other - through words and actions - being with someone who is ambiguous is not a recipe for healthy relating and being with someone who says they don't want a relationship doesn't mean they need sorting out and fixing by you, it's a signal to yourself to exit however difficult and leave them to get on with their own journey without inflicting damage upon yourself. Stonewalling and then reappearing asthough nothing has happen needs calling up and discussing when in a relationship and at this point you get to decide whether or not it works for you. Lack of contact with someone who have communicated that they are not capable of relating to you or don't want a relationship is not the same thing - it's painful because you want something from that person and the supply has been cut but whilst it seems cruel what is cruel in reality is staying in a relationship that is damaging to you, I know having been there, that in many ways the silence is a blessing that allows you to really process pain and move onwards - you can choose to see it that way or to feel victimised and take it personally or continue in attempts to understand which in reality keep you stuck/ So difficult I know and my heart goes out to everyone in that kind of situation at the moment. Hi Ocarina, I really like what you said here. I agree that we cannot make people respond to us or in essence will them into wanting the same thing. I am now thinking had I listened to my ex, I would have heard how he didn't want a serious relationship from the beginning, just a casual monogamous one. At one point he told me decided to "come towards me" and have a real relationship and we did for a time, then he abruptly pulled out- I think he felt trapped. At any rate, I can see how hard it was for me to truly hear him because of his actions and ambivalence. He is stonewalling me now, going on 13 days and each day I feel so discarded- I don't want to be a victim here, but I have left him alone in silence and do not ask him to respond, however, he knows how incredibly painful this is as he has experienced it himself- we even made a pact never to do it again to each other, if we wish to never speak again, we will tell each other- so this makes things harder for me. However you are so right- holding onto hope is far worse. thank you for this post.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 7, 2018 18:18:40 GMT
Kirstyrose that's an incredibly mature and brave piece of writing. In a breakup it's natural to go through stages of grieving and I am not surprised that you and any others who have been through similar feel really very angry - the natural inclination from there is to blame. But as you said we all see relationships through our own eyes - and often ignore the parts we don't want to see believing by staying somehow things will change.
Who knows what is ever going on in the head of the silent person - and it isn't our job to speculate. Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope that we cling to.
Clearing our heads by turning ourselves with compassion towards ourselves, leads us to better interaction with others without attaching our needs and judgements - maybe then it becomes easier to heed the early: "I can't do relationships" warning signs that are often clearly spelled out. I certainly did the same and my ex partner came back again and again whilst i held firm.
Really hope this is a huge leap in your healing and all good wishes to you.
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