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Post by kristyrose on Feb 7, 2018 19:28:40 GMT
Kirstyrose that's an incredibly mature and brave piece of writing. In a breakup it's natural to go through stages of grieving and I am not surprised that you and any others who have been through similar feel really very angry - the natural inclination from there is to blame. But as you said we all see relationships through our own eyes - and often ignore the parts we don't want to see believing by staying somehow things will change. Who knows what is ever going on in the head of the silent person - and it isn't our job to speculate. Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope that we cling to. Clearing our heads by turning ourselves with compassion towards ourselves, leads us to better interaction with others without attaching our needs and judgements - maybe then it becomes easier to heed the early: "I can't do relationships" warning signs that are often clearly spelled out. I certainly did the same and my ex partner came back again and again whilst i held firm. Really hope this is a huge leap in your healing and all good wishes to you. Thanks Ocarina. another perfectly stated sentence: Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope... yes, his coming back to me over and over gave me a lot of false hope. I truly thought it was because he just couldn't bear to be without me. I still have no clue why he would do this because when I asked he could not respond. I almost feel like his stonewalling is a way to infuse hope because in previous times when he stonewalled, he always came back - so instead of saying, hey i think we should stop talking for a long time- he just went silent. I initially had some hope he would come back, but now I'm just trying to take it hour by hour - day by day and view it as he is gone and I need to move on. So hard in the face of silence. Such a slap in the face. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 21:20:38 GMT
Kirstyrose that's an incredibly mature and brave piece of writing. In a breakup it's natural to go through stages of grieving and I am not surprised that you and any others who have been through similar feel really very angry - the natural inclination from there is to blame. But as you said we all see relationships through our own eyes - and often ignore the parts we don't want to see believing by staying somehow things will change. Who knows what is ever going on in the head of the silent person - and it isn't our job to speculate. Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope that we cling to. Clearing our heads by turning ourselves with compassion towards ourselves, leads us to better interaction with others without attaching our needs and judgements - maybe then it becomes easier to heed the early: "I can't do relationships" warning signs that are often clearly spelled out. I certainly did the same and my ex partner came back again and again whilst i held firm. Really hope this is a huge leap in your healing and all good wishes to you. Thanks Ocarina. another perfectly stated sentence: Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope... yes, his coming back to me over and over gave me a lot of false hope. I truly thought it was because he just couldn't bear to be without me. I still have no clue why he would do this because when I asked he could not respond. I almost feel like his stonewalling is a way to infuse hope because in previous times when he stonewalled, he always came back - so instead of saying, hey i think we should stop talking for a long time- he just went silent. I initially had some hope he would come back, but now I'm just trying to take it hour by hour - day by day and view it as he is gone and I need to move on. So hard in the face of silence. Such a slap in the face. Stonewalling is not a way to infuse hope and I highly doubt that's why he's doing it. He keeps coming back because you keep taking him back. He may be avoidant, he may be not. He may be an a-hole that goes and does his own thing, then comes back to you for sex and companionship when he feels like it, may be not. Does it matter? He's not a partner, period. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 21:31:44 GMT
Thanks Ocarina. another perfectly stated sentence: Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope... yes, his coming back to me over and over gave me a lot of false hope. I truly thought it was because he just couldn't bear to be without me. I still have no clue why he would do this because when I asked he could not respond. I almost feel like his stonewalling is a way to infuse hope because in previous times when he stonewalled, he always came back - so instead of saying, hey i think we should stop talking for a long time- he just went silent. I initially had some hope he would come back, but now I'm just trying to take it hour by hour - day by day and view it as he is gone and I need to move on. So hard in the face of silence. Such a slap in the face. Stonewalling is not a way to infuse hope and I highly doubt that's why he's doing it. He keeps coming back because you keep taking him back. He may be avoidant, he may be not. He may be an a-hole that goes and does his own thing, then comes back to you for sex and companionship when he feels like it, may be not. Does it matter? He's not a partner, period. My take is that in spite of any promises you two ever made to each other not to hurt each other, the relationship had no firm foundation of commitment. It was built on sand. Promises Shmomises. I don’t see his behavior as stonewalling, i see it as he has left the building and is most likely proceeding with what he said he would do, dating other people and moving on. this looks like a breakup to me, pure and simple. initiated by you, this behavior would be called no contact. he said he wanted to move on. he coaxed you to do the same. it is possible that he clearly understands your inability to let go and has chosen not to have contact with you because any contact, no contact, delayed contact, any approach seems to be something that you transform to hope of some kind in your own thinking. I don’t know if he will contact you again but caution against denial in your own thinking.  |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 7, 2018 21:34:00 GMT
Kristy, I am sorry you're still in pain and suffering every day. I am on day 7 NC and barely even think about him, so I really feel a lot of empathy for people going through the torturous feelings all this can create.
I think to make yourself feel better, you first of all have to feel more confidence and belief in yourself. If you can feel these things, what someone else does will matter less for you. Try and work on ways to have confidence that somewhere in the world there IS a person to date who you will love who WON'T do this to you. you have to logically accept that is true because the world is a big place and a boyfriend who treats you better is possible for literally anyone to find, I promise.
Second of all, try and detach feeling your inadequacy caused this. he treats women (at least you) badly. this makes HIM bad. Not YOU. If you see what I mean. As Mary says, he might be avoidant (probably is) but he is also...selfish and not so interested in how you feel. Mary and tgat are avoidant, and myself and Ocarina are FA - we aren't selfish and we care how our partners feel. Avoidance isn't a hallpass for being a jackass. Those are bad characteristics. You don't seem to have bad characteristics. So why let the pain of all this fall on you?
I think all this is insecurity which is inside you, not related to this person. If he was friend behaving like this, you'd probably get mad, defend yourself and say "hmm, if this friend is treating me like this, I can find better friends because this person doesn't deserve me". try and do the same here. you'll slowly begin to feel the truth dawn on you that you're kind of offering more than he is right here. I know for sure which one of you guys I'd prefer to date!
Bring back that confidence, haul it back in there!
I miss my FA (sometimes) and feel a bit sad that he didn't step up, but I don't feel it's a flaw in me. I think he's just a bit screwed up, selfish, childish and treats women badly because he has issues. None of this makes him a good partner for me. So I don't torture myself or hope he calls. In fact I hope he DOESN'T call because I am a soft hearted person and it's way more easy to move on if he ignores me.
His silence is a gift for you, when he's silent is the only time he's actually not being a selfish jackass because every time he comes back he messes with your feelings and you deserve someone who treats your feelings like they are really, really, really important
x
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Post by yasmin on Feb 7, 2018 21:43:16 GMT
Kirstyrose that's an incredibly mature and brave piece of writing. In a breakup it's natural to go through stages of grieving and I am not surprised that you and any others who have been through similar feel really very angry - the natural inclination from there is to blame. But as you said we all see relationships through our own eyes - and often ignore the parts we don't want to see believing by staying somehow things will change. Who knows what is ever going on in the head of the silent person - and it isn't our job to speculate. Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope that we cling to. Clearing our heads by turning ourselves with compassion towards ourselves, leads us to better interaction with others without attaching our needs and judgements - maybe then it becomes easier to heed the early: "I can't do relationships" warning signs that are often clearly spelled out. I certainly did the same and my ex partner came back again and again whilst i held firm. Really hope this is a huge leap in your healing and all good wishes to you. Thanks Ocarina. another perfectly stated sentence: Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope... yes, his coming back to me over and over gave me a lot of false hope. I truly thought it was because he just couldn't bear to be without me. I still have no clue why he would do this because when I asked he could not respond. I almost feel like his stonewalling is a way to infuse hope because in previous times when he stonewalled, he always came back - so instead of saying, hey i think we should stop talking for a long time- he just went silent. I initially had some hope he would come back, but now I'm just trying to take it hour by hour - day by day and view it as he is gone and I need to move on. So hard in the face of silence. Such a slap in the face. I know ocarina is also ambivalent, but I have to say, even though I am FA I really don't do any of this behavior. I might do certain things like push away new relaitonships and break up with people early, but never in my 38 years on the planet have I dated someone I knew was in love with me, while calling it "friends" and generally messed with another person's head to the point they needed a support forum to deal with the pain that I am causing them. I'm one of the avoidants on this forum, and there's people a lot more avoidant than I am and I don't read any of them doing this. I think this is fundamentally selfish behavior of a person who wants their cake and eat it too. It smacks of emotional selfishness that is profound and goes beyond avoidance. Sure, avoidance might be the motivation, but we are all still able to choose what we do with our fear and how we impact others. I think it's pretty simple with these FA's we've been dating...as @mary said, they come back because we let them. They come back because we're giving them something that feels really nice. They come back because they can and the fact that it's causing ongoing pain isn't on their radar. I am not saying they don't care or intentionally cause pain, but I also think it does no one any favours to paint this behavior in a romantic light of the person who loves you soooo much but their "fear" prevents them from being with you. Their choice prevents them from being with us. Fear is irrelevant. I'm afraid to fly, I still take vacations. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 21:56:16 GMT
and let’s be honest, a$$hole or NPD or whatever, there is not a single thing here he could do between coming back, contracting you, cutting you off, nothing will be ok .
what’s ok? who is wrong?
right or wrong , good or bad, this isn’t about what he does or doesn’t do.
it’s about you. and what you do.
what you choose.
what you allow.
what you believe.
i’m saying this gently and with compassion kristyrose.
i’m sorry.
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Post by ocarina on Feb 7, 2018 21:56:55 GMT
I think my poor grammar may have been confusing - I am the worlds most steadfast person and really not at all ambivalent - once I have spent the long while getting to know someone - I was trying to say in my last post that I ignored warning signs again and again and allowed my ex partner back in when it was hurting me.
When I left my partner - I asked him to help me to get through the problems we were having together - no drama, just a request for more respect of my time and energy, more presence. He told me it was my decision and then disappeared - I didn't hear from him for months.
Love is respecting the other person, caring for their feelings, behaving compassionately. We all have a choice how we react - I chose to take the higher moral ground and get on with my life - in many ways I am really proud that I didn't run away but eventually was honest and open about my needs - the fact that he couldn't or wouldn't do anything differently is not a reflection on me - he absolutely wanted his cake and ate it - without having to risk emotional discomfort and I allowed that for years and years.
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 7, 2018 22:00:48 GMT
Thanks Ocarina. another perfectly stated sentence: Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope... yes, his coming back to me over and over gave me a lot of false hope. I truly thought it was because he just couldn't bear to be without me. I still have no clue why he would do this because when I asked he could not respond. I almost feel like his stonewalling is a way to infuse hope because in previous times when he stonewalled, he always came back - so instead of saying, hey i think we should stop talking for a long time- he just went silent. I initially had some hope he would come back, but now I'm just trying to take it hour by hour - day by day and view it as he is gone and I need to move on. So hard in the face of silence. Such a slap in the face. I know ocarina is also ambivalent, but I have to say, even though I am FA I really don't do any of this behavior. I might do certain things like push away new relaitonships and break up with people early, but never in my 38 years on the planet have I dated someone I knew was in love with me, while calling it "friends" and generally messed with another person's head to the point they needed a support forum to deal with the pain that I am causing them. I'm one of the avoidants on this forum, and there's people a lot more avoidant than I am and I don't read any of them doing this. I think this is fundamentally selfish behavior of a person who wants their cake and eat it too. It smacks of emotional selfishness that is profound and goes beyond avoidance. Sure, avoidance might be the motivation, but we are all still able to choose what we do with our fear and how we impact others. I think it's pretty simple with these FA's we've been dating...as @mary said, they come back because we let them. They come back because we're giving them something that feels really nice. They come back because they can and the fact that it's causing ongoing pain isn't on their radar. I am not saying they don't care or intentionally cause pain, but I also think it does no one any favours to paint this behavior in a romantic light of the person who loves you soooo much but their "fear" prevents them from being with you. Their choice prevents them from being with us. Fear is irrelevant. I'm afraid to fly, I still take vacations. Yasmin, Thank you for both of your posts here. I know very well that my deeply hurt feelings have a lot to do with the past than with what my ex is doing. Being ignored stirs up feelings of unworthiness, abandonment and overall just feeling unlovable and lonely. I know that one person cannot possibly create these feelings in me. It is true, in the face of such pain I am desperately trying to make sense of his behavior. But it is truly sounding like he is a f-in sociopath! He knew I was in love with him, he admitted he knew I wanted to get back together while he was seeing me. I think he is a selfish a-hole and it hurts less to just believe he is afraid of love. He is only concerned about himself and the stonewalling is just him doing what he wants- with the door open a crack to be received by me once again when he feels like it. Perhaps part of what I am feeling is utter embarrassment for clinging to this person, I've been with secures, I've been married and have NEVER reacted this way. I hate to say it, I'm so ashamed of myself. I can almost hear my desperation in this thread and it makes me sad. However, I'm going to keep at my therapy and keep working on myself, I'm not giving up. |
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 7, 2018 22:07:34 GMT
He is stonewalling me now, going on 13 days and each day I feel so discarded- I don't want to be a victim here, but I have left him alone in silence and do not ask him to respond, however, he knows how incredibly painful this is as he has experienced it himself- we even made a pact never to do it again to each other, if we wish to never speak again, we will tell each other- so this makes things harder for me. However you are so right- holding onto hope is far worse. thank you for this post. For all the things this man has done wrong, he's done something right here. And that is showing you that whatever he says to make you think otherwise, he cannot and will not be a dependable partner that will act in your best interests, promise or not. That is the core of what he has communicated to you throughout and you deserve better than that. Don't allow him to make you lose sight of that anymore. |
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 7, 2018 22:09:02 GMT
He is stonewalling me now, going on 13 days and each day I feel so discarded- I don't want to be a victim here, but I have left him alone in silence and do not ask him to respond, however, he knows how incredibly painful this is as he has experienced it himself- we even made a pact never to do it again to each other, if we wish to never speak again, we will tell each other- so this makes things harder for me. However you are so right- holding onto hope is far worse. thank you for this post. For all the things this man has done wrong, he's done something right here. And that is showing you that whatever he says to make you think otherwise, he cannot and will not be a dependable partner that will act in your best interests, promise or not. That is the core of what he has communicated to you throughout and you deserve better than that. Don't allow him to make you lose sight of that anymore. That is a really great point Jaeger! Very simple and so incredibly true. |
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 7, 2018 22:11:12 GMT
and let’s be honest, a$$hole or NPD or whatever, there is not a single thing here he could do between coming back, contracting you, cutting you off, nothing will be ok . what’s ok? who is wrong? right or wrong , good or bad, this isn’t about what he does or doesn’t do. it’s about you. and what you do. what you choose. what you allow. what you believe. i’m saying this gently and with compassion kristyrose. i’m sorry. T, I appreciate your words even though they sting, I know they are coming from a genuine place of care and concern. I wish I had found this forum much sooner, but I'm extremely grateful I have it now. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 7, 2018 22:11:52 GMT
Love is respecting the other person, caring for their feelings, behaving compassionately. We all have a choice how we react - I chose to take the higher moral ground and get on with my life - in many ways I am really proud that I didn't run away but eventually was honest and open about my needs - the fact that he couldn't or wouldn't do anything differently is not a reflection on me - he absolutely wanted his cake and ate it - without having to risk emotional discomfort and I allowed that for years and years. This x 1000 I am sure it's harder for some people to be loving, of course it is. Some people have a painful history or a reduced capacity, but the point is that the "why" isn't all that relevant. You can love someone and compassionately accept that they don't / can't / won't behave in a way that is consistently loving towards you -and then let that person go with love and find a partner better able to do that. It's our own responsibility to bring ourselves to safety and move away from things which cause us suffering. None of us deserve this. |
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 7, 2018 22:12:41 GMT
Thanks Ocarina. another perfectly stated sentence: Ambivalent partners are the most difficult as there always seems to be hope... yes, his coming back to me over and over gave me a lot of false hope. I truly thought it was because he just couldn't bear to be without me. I still have no clue why he would do this because when I asked he could not respond. I almost feel like his stonewalling is a way to infuse hope because in previous times when he stonewalled, he always came back - so instead of saying, hey i think we should stop talking for a long time- he just went silent. I initially had some hope he would come back, but now I'm just trying to take it hour by hour - day by day and view it as he is gone and I need to move on. So hard in the face of silence. Such a slap in the face. Stonewalling is not a way to infuse hope and I highly doubt that's why he's doing it. He keeps coming back because you keep taking him back. He may be avoidant, he may be not. He may be an a-hole that goes and does his own thing, then comes back to you for sex and companionship when he feels like it, may be not. Does it matter? He's not a partner, period. Hi Mary, The truth hurts. but, it will ultimately set me free if I just face it!!!! Thank you for the support |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 7, 2018 22:18:50 GMT
I know ocarina is also ambivalent, but I have to say, even though I am FA I really don't do any of this behavior. I might do certain things like push away new relaitonships and break up with people early, but never in my 38 years on the planet have I dated someone I knew was in love with me, while calling it "friends" and generally messed with another person's head to the point they needed a support forum to deal with the pain that I am causing them. I'm one of the avoidants on this forum, and there's people a lot more avoidant than I am and I don't read any of them doing this. I think this is fundamentally selfish behavior of a person who wants their cake and eat it too. It smacks of emotional selfishness that is profound and goes beyond avoidance. Sure, avoidance might be the motivation, but we are all still able to choose what we do with our fear and how we impact others. I think it's pretty simple with these FA's we've been dating...as @mary said, they come back because we let them. They come back because we're giving them something that feels really nice. They come back because they can and the fact that it's causing ongoing pain isn't on their radar. I am not saying they don't care or intentionally cause pain, but I also think it does no one any favours to paint this behavior in a romantic light of the person who loves you soooo much but their "fear" prevents them from being with you. Their choice prevents them from being with us. Fear is irrelevant. I'm afraid to fly, I still take vacations. Yasmin, Thank you for both of your posts here. I know very well that my deeply hurt feelings have a lot to do with the past than with what my ex is doing. Being ignored stirs up feelings of unworthiness, abandonment and overall just feeling unlovable and lonely. I know that one person cannot possibly create these feelings in me. It is true, in the face of such pain I am desperately trying to make sense of his behavior. But it is truly sounding like he is a f-in sociopath! He knew I was in love with him, he admitted he knew I wanted to get back together while he was seeing me. I think he is a selfish a-hole and it hurts less to just believe he is afraid of love. He is only concerned about himself and the stonewalling is just him doing what he wants- with the door open a crack to be received by me once again when he feels like it. Perhaps part of what I am feeling is utter embarrassment for clinging to this person, I've been with secures, I've been married and have NEVER reacted this way. I hate to say it, I'm so ashamed of myself. I can almost hear my desperation in this thread and it makes me sad. However, I'm going to keep at my therapy and keep working on myself, I'm not giving up. I know how you're feeling....but... 1. Him ignoring you is a lot more respectful than him chasing after you to fill his needs like before. In fact if he leaves you alone this is a sing he does care and has a shred of decency. 2. No, you have done NOTHING wrong. you felt he loved you because he acted like he did. He spent all his time with you, he romanced you, he did it all. You're not at fault for being loving and accepting and trying to see the best in someone. 3. Don't beat yourself up for getting sucked into this - I did too - so did most people here. None of us are dumb. We just fell in love and got confusing signals. 4. You WILL get over this, but it starts with stopping making excuses for him. May e he is afraid to love. Maybe most people are actually. He's not a little kid though. Let HIM be responsible for that. YOU are responsible for YOU. And you're GREAT at loving -we have all seen this. This person's affirmation is not the answer for you. the answer is finding it in yourself, loving yourself enough to say "hey, I am pretty great actually, what this guy does is not the whole point of my life here". It doesn't mean growing cold or not being the loving, empathetic Kristy that you are - don't change - but just appreciate yourself more, and appreciate him less. He's not as important as you are (to you). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 22:21:52 GMT
Stonewalling is not a way to infuse hope and I highly doubt that's why he's doing it. He keeps coming back because you keep taking him back. He may be avoidant, he may be not. He may be an a-hole that goes and does his own thing, then comes back to you for sex and companionship when he feels like it, may be not. Does it matter? He's not a partner, period. Hi Mary, The truth hurts. but, it will ultimately set me free if I just face it!!!! Thank you for the support Yes, I am very blunt and don't have a way with words that yasmin has, but my post comes from a good place. It is meant to help. I have been where you are in the sense that I was with a partner that wasn't good to me, he was abusive. We dated for years and I was blind to it. No one was straight with me, no one said to break up with him. If they had, maybe I would've seen it sooner. Lessons are hard. Hugs. |
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