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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 2:31:36 GMT
@future- you're getting it, yes you are!!! i love what you wrote. i actually thought of you as i was laying relaxing with my guy! he will be glad that you are teaching him how to treat you  i'm sure you're worth it as well. every time you describe something about him i chuckle. our guys are twins and react a lot the same. i've had the same scenario. I have to say, me and every DA i know are stubborn creatures of HABIT. We get in a rut. It's happy for me, my rut. it would seem to be opposite of what i need, in terms of freedom. but it establishes my base from which i come and go. I've been an avoidant for so long... Avoidance is my rut also. Probably your man's as well. For me, i feel it will be a life long practice of avoiding Avoiding lol. So that's where you have to step up, speak up, and you did! How awesome. Loving an (evolving) voidant will keep you on your toes practicing self care but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. My partner and i have grown forward with it. I had a great night with my guy also. So emotional for me actually. I will share more later, i have some good things to process. And i could use some help! For now, my battery is dying and i left my charger at his house haha! Have to run and get one 🙄😑😁 |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 31, 2018 2:48:50 GMT
tnr9 , do you think it's a good idea to be in contact with him? It seems like it could be prolonging your healing and reinforcing your negative beliefs about yourself.  Juniper....I completely understand your question given my earlier post. I am actually much better now after talking to a friend (and praying with her). The fog has lifted and I am now able to be much more understanding towards myself...and his silence does not bother me. In fact, I welcome the silence as I really need to focus on me right now. I won't see him for another week which is a bonus. I won't lie on how challenging this is....but to me...he is worth the effort....even if just as a friend. The dark clouds are from my past....and unfortunately they rise from time to time....I am just grateful for a mountain top moment.🙂 Also....I know he cares...and he isn't "using" me (and he would never want to purposefully hurt me). There may be an aspect of control, as in needing the space to connect and then disengage (testing the waters do to speak)...but there is a reason for this. I find what works best is when I am in a good space and he doesn't feel any emotional "pressure" from me. He has more going on than just his avoidance and so that complicates matters...but still....I do love him for who he is....even the parts of him that cause my attachment pain to go off. I have a good friend at work who wants me to act a bit more standoffish....not as friendly....but I see this as manipulative. The point is not to portray myself as someone who doesn't care, it is to be someone who cares for both myself and him equally. Only time will tell if I can successfully walk this path. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 31, 2018 10:21:51 GMT
if you don't mind @future , i'd love to keep these dialog going if you want to, also. For several reasons. it actually can benefit us both. For me, it serves as a way to keep my focus on awareness, as much of what i share with you and advice i have, is good for me too. It's like journaling and i hate to journal so this works lol. I thought about all this some more. I think many of us look for the answer, the outcome- we look for that assurance, we feel so much fear that we would like to know we aren't taking too many risks with our heart and well being. But when we look to a partner for all the answers and give them all the power , we inadvertently destroy the possibility of a truly equitable union! I imagine that to an AP, not speaking up for themselves in a healthy way, and over compromising, sacrificing their needs, they might believe they are giving a precarious situation the best chance for survival. But that isn't so! They have to co-create their well being. If they rely on their partner to direct everything, they aren't a good partner actually, they are more like just a backpack that their partner carries around and reaches into when they need something. That's kind of human nature, it's not purely a DA thing. The same things can be said about a DA living in fear. We do need assurance, but will mostly likely not seek it. So we do the opposite protective maneuvers. Anyway, i'm not sure if all that made sense. We have to really look at what we are co-creating. We have to really challenge fear based perceptions. And fail or no fail, it seems that in these situations we have an opportunity to work TOWARD healing and security. That doesn't mean we are guaranteed a happily ever after! But it's a proving ground, an opportunity to change the horrible scripts we live by. Just thinking out loud (on the internet) lol. Thank you. I love this. Some of the most meaningful advice for me, since dealing with a DA, is to meet my own needs and not look to a partner to fulfill me. I always assumed that being part of a couple meant that we each took care of whatever either of us was lacking, in such a way that we were basically codependent. Never occured to me to take care of myself fully and be with someone who was doing likewise. It actually seems like a healthier way to have a relationship. I feel like I have been brainwashed by films, love songs, and what is considered 'normal' couple behavior, to even contemplate what a healthy relationship between two independent people could be like. I am looking forward to moving on with an open mind and not looking for a cookie cutter partnership. Boundaries have always been a problem for me. I don't set them! But I feel them, and know when they have been overstepped. By this time it is usually too late because I blow up and the person on the other end wonders where all this anger came from. I think I did better this time! No yelling or accusations. I simply stated my needs were not being met and I saw no future. I feel good about myself for not being needy, clingy or critical toward him. On the surface it would appear that I calmly moved on. The crazy ruminations in my head tell the real story lol! But only my best friend and anybody reading this would know! This forum is, "Talk Therapy", without a fee and with experts in the field! I am very grateful to all the wonderful commenters on here! I think we have to back even farther...at least I did...to understand the lopsided dynamic that feels so "normal"....I remember as a very young child ( because i have no memories of being an infant) I did not consider my own boundaries because my mother's were so narrow and very defined (and it seemed I always crossed them). It wasn't that I did not have boundaries...it did not ever feel safe to express them....so I simply let others define the boundaries. The thing is...my boundaries are still there...however I tend to use protest behavior (getting upset about things that have nothing to do with the actual boundary violation) because that is how I worked around my mom's disappointments in me. It was not ok to be disappointed in her..so I took on a double portion...her disappointment in me, my disappointment in her that turned into self condemnation. The other thing is..my mom's reactions to boundary violations always felt personal, always felt like there was something defective about me. And her silence was unbearable....she had a "battery" that was always exhausted by me. I still live in the ripples of that initial broken relationship..the attachment pain rears it's ugly head. In fact, right now there is a story in my head that if I had only been "stronger", "more independent" and "able to set clear boundaries" that I would still be dating "B". Those stories are so painful because it comes from a place of deep wounding..the idea that the success or failure of any relationship falls square on my shoulders. Magical thinking at it's absolute extreme. But it has been my way to feel like I have done level of control...because if it is all on my shoulders, then I can fix it...that is my thinking. I think that may also resonate with others with AP...I don't know. I do know that it is good to get this out,..to acknowledge it and the little girl who just wanted to love and be loved for who she is. I think Juniper....APs just dealt with the inconsistent treatment from our caregivers by taking on a rather chiverous approach to love...the I will not give up on you...even if that means giving up on myself ( self abandoning). We do not understand how that can be interpreted as smothering to a DA. That it would be taken as us not really seeing our partner fully but only for the ideal that we hope will result. It is from a place of deep wounding where we pictured the ideal of what our caregivers could be since the reality was often scary/rejecting/not safe...intermittent affection is the norm and it stinks to still crave breadcrumbs. But when breadcrumbs are all you know...then you will try to make a meal of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 12:48:12 GMT
if you don't mind @future , i'd love to keep these dialog going if you want to, also. For several reasons. it actually can benefit us both. For me, it serves as a way to keep my focus on awareness, as much of what i share with you and advice i have, is good for me too. It's like journaling and i hate to journal so this works lol. I thought about all this some more. I think many of us look for the answer, the outcome- we look for that assurance, we feel so much fear that we would like to know we aren't taking too many risks with our heart and well being. But when we look to a partner for all the answers and give them all the power , we inadvertently destroy the possibility of a truly equitable union! I imagine that to an AP, not speaking up for themselves in a healthy way, and over compromising, sacrificing their needs, they might believe they are giving a precarious situation the best chance for survival. But that isn't so! They have to co-create their well being. If they rely on their partner to direct everything, they aren't a good partner actually, they are more like just a backpack that their partner carries around and reaches into when they need something. That's kind of human nature, it's not purely a DA thing. The same things can be said about a DA living in fear. We do need assurance, but will mostly likely not seek it. So we do the opposite protective maneuvers. Anyway, i'm not sure if all that made sense. We have to really look at what we are co-creating. We have to really challenge fear based perceptions. And fail or no fail, it seems that in these situations we have an opportunity to work TOWARD healing and security. That doesn't mean we are guaranteed a happily ever after! But it's a proving ground, an opportunity to change the horrible scripts we live by. Just thinking out loud (on the internet) lol. Thank you. I love this. Some of the most meaningful advice for me, since dealing with a DA, is to meet my own needs and not look to a partner to fulfill me. I always assumed that being part of a couple meant that we each took care of whatever either of us was lacking, in such a way that we were basically codependent. Never occured to me to take care of myself fully and be with someone who was doing likewise. It actually seems like a healthier way to have a relationship. I feel like I have been brainwashed by films, love songs, and what is considered 'normal' couple behavior, to even contemplate what a healthy relationship between two independent people could be like. I am looking forward to moving on with an open mind and not looking for a cookie cutter partnership. Boundaries have always been a problem for me. I don't set them! But I feel them, and know when they have been overstepped. By this time it is usually too late because I blow up and the person on the other end wonders where all this anger came from. I think I did better this time! No yelling or accusations. I simply stated my needs were not being met and I saw no future. I feel good about myself for not being needy, clingy or critical toward him. On the surface it would appear that I calmly moved on. The crazy ruminations in my head tell the real story lol! But only my best friend and anybody reading this would know! This forum is, "Talk Therapy", without a fee and with experts in the field! I am very grateful to all the wonderful commenters on here! I agree about the value of this Talk Therapy, especially when there is such a diverse group all sincerely wanting to grow and heal their patterns. It's extremely valuable to me. There is a LOT of negative press against Avoidants out there. Before i learned about avoidance from a compassionate source, before i knew i was DA, i was completely alienated by any kind of dating or relationship advice i sought because internally, i am not wired for the "cookie cutter" relationship. I felt very adrift and confused and defective in that regard. And, while my culture praises high achieving women, if we can't have a healthy intimate relationship in spite of all we accomplish and contribute to society, well.... according to the standard out there, we avoidants are CRAP. Jeb's website has good information for me. I haven't read his book because i am thinking it might trigger me but that's only my assumption from the title. I think he has a lot of good insight and seems to want to encourage the best of each style, and point the way to healing for everyone. Some of the most beautiful gems i have collected in my quest is that - * I am an individual. A good, worthy, loving individual worthy of love. * I am the same and unique- i have patterns that the collective can help me understand, and i have also unique challenges and gifts , as we all do . this is not only ok, it's awesome. * A healthy relationship for me, is one that encourages and supports my authenticity, my WHO I AM... and helps me discover and nurture THAT--- not who someone else is, or wants me to be... WHO I AM. This is a great thread, i love it. thank you to all contributing! |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 31, 2018 13:00:34 GMT
I think a lot of movies, books, movies are written by people with AP....or at least for people with AP attachment styles. After all...the goal of movies, songs and books is to have you watch, listen and read them..and you won't if they are not compelling. Same thing with self help books.....my coworker wants me to read "Why men love b@@@@@s". I understand the premise...don't give too much...mirror his level of interest, stay busy with your own life, have good boundaries.....all very good....but does not address any deep inner work that must be done. It is one thing to act secure ( and maybe a bit DA) it is another to actually embrace all of who you are and become secure. That means embracing the parts of you that do not align with what society "expects". I am not a "doer"....I am not naturally drawn to take trips, go to the gym, decorate my place....I like to "think", "write" and notice things that are simple but lovely. I am drawn to photography, to painting, to poetry....anything where my unique voice can be stated. So I tend to not like any self help books that say you need to "do" these things...I will push back, procrastinate....because my mom was a huge "doer" and she would say things like "if you would just do this or do that.." And that felt like an obligation....and no one likes obligations.....we want choices. So I think in the end...be you...be who you need to be...because in the act of loving yourself, being curious about yourself and accepting yourself unconditionally...I do believe we can change the dynamic from our past. Lopsided just won't be appealing anymore. 🙂
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 13:05:37 GMT
❤️ tnr9 , it's so important to understand where this all comes from, i am (obviously ) a huge fan of looking and working with the inner child. I also take time to consider the inner child of people i am in relationships (and the world at large). Once you know what hurts, you are empowered to heal it. Becoming the confidante and protector and teacher of my inner child has been the key to transformation, for me! There is a lot of good advice but if my little girl inside can't understand it, or be gently shown how apply it, it's useless. So much of the popular relationship advice out there is just a repeat of her original wounding.... but , that no longer impacts me. I've got her back, we're good. I can tuck little Juni behind me and ask her to trust me while i show her new ways of believing, trusting, interacting, and bonding. It's such good stuff. |
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Post by tnr9 on Mar 31, 2018 18:27:49 GMT
❤️ tnr9 , it's so important to understand where this all comes from, i am (obviously ) a huge fan of looking and working with the inner child. I also take time to consider the inner child of people i am in relationships (and the world at large). Once you know what hurts, you are empowered to heal it. Becoming the confidante and protector and teacher of my inner child has been the key to transformation, for me! There is a lot of good advice but if my little girl inside can't understand it, or be gently shown how apply it, it's useless. So much of the popular relationship advice out there is just a repeat of her original wounding.... but , that no longer impacts me. I've got her back, we're good. I can tuck little Juni behind me and ask her to trust me while i show her new ways of believing, trusting, interacting, and bonding. It's such good stuff. Yes..I find so much of the good advice to be triggering as well....and I have decided that in the end...I need to be the caregiver and protector to my litlle girl that my mom just could not be ( I say mom because dad just wan't a presence at all...he checked out...was uninvolved and in many ways...unavailable...thus a deep rooted attraction to unavailable men). I thin the beauty of secures is the confidence they have in who they are...it is refreshing to be around them because they are able to stand in their own skin while being available to another person. The friends I know with this attachment style do not trigger me...I do not fear losing their friendship or showing up in pain....they are able to separate me from my pain and can be there for me. They also have boundaries that are strong but do not feel like walls. That is where I want to be...able to love me and love others equally. Juniper...I love how you always present Juni as a beautiful girl that you are protecting....I admire the inner work you have done. It makes me smile to read about your journey. Shalom! ❤️ |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 1:24:13 GMT
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Post by mrob on Apr 1, 2018 5:24:11 GMT
Juniper, I read the book during the middle of a divorce and was devastated. It was worth it for the information, but I felt like an irretrievably disabled piece of garbage. At least DAs start from a high level of self esteem!
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Post by tnr9 on Apr 1, 2018 5:48:21 GMT
Juniper, I read the book during the middle of a divorce and was devastated. It was worth it for the information, but I felt like an irretrievably disabled piece of garbage. At least DAs start from a high level of self esteem! I am so sorry to read that this was your experience from reading the book. Sending a massive hug. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 19:34:33 GMT
Juniper, I read the book during the middle of a divorce and was devastated. It was worth it for the information, but I felt like an irretrievably disabled piece of garbage. At least DAs start from a high level of self esteem! ah, i'm sorry mrob! we aren't irretrievable garbage  do you find this forum helpful? there are pros and cons of it for me but i participate with my own understanding and patience and self esteem in tow. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 0:50:02 GMT
Hi juniper. So, not sure what's happening with Mr.Man but I had to drive one of the kiddos back to school today in bad weather (2 hrs each way). He was texting and calling me because he was worried about me. Left me a super cute msg to call or text him that I was ok. This is so new. I admit, I really liked it, LOL Not sure if he has worried about me before. If he has, he hasn't really shown it. He always says drive carefully, be safe, etc. and he'll text me if I'm late for work. But, this was different. He seemed really relieved when I finally called him. Anyway, it's a different side of him I guess. I made plans with him to spend tomorrow evening together. We'll see... How are you doing today??? it may be that he is positively impacted by the recent interactions you two had discussing your needs. He needed to be able to take care of some things, you needed to have more investment in the relationship (you stating your needs and boundaries, him stepping up to meet you there) . When my partner does things that make me feel good like that, i let him know it makes me feel good and that i appreciate it. I am doing ok! Sadly, both my partner and i had difficult situations to face this past week in our own families. So there is some sadness and uncertainty to deal with not related to our relationship. Life gets kinda heavy sometimes, for all of us But i have a lot to be thankful for. Thank you for asking! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 1:33:45 GMT
@future, sadly they are serious situations but not unexpected.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 1:47:21 GMT
juniper, so sorry to hear that. I'm here if you need to vent, anytime. thank you future. we both take care of family members who have life-limiting illnesses, and both individuals have taken a turn for the worse. Life is full of challenges, and situations like this are cause to slow down and be thankful for the good things. there are always good things. it's also a good reminder to get out of oneself and stay present for the people around you. We all have so many blessings we take for granted- in material provisions and also in people, so many blessings we forget to count. *breathing* |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 13:41:20 GMT
@future yes, a day at a time. i am so happy that you and your man worked through that sticking point. over time my partner and i have learned how to navigate with each other. there is a foundation of care and respect, and certainty of our feelings for each other, so conflict is not accompanied by a lot of fear. we just navigate it. enjoy your evening with him!! |
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